Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Typically, the club's lack of openness has led to misunderstandings of the extent of the restrictions that impinge on the club's freedom to build a competitive first team squad. What is not in any doubt is that we were placed under an embargo as a result of taking out a loan during the initial Covid lockdown period and failing to repay that. That embargo remains in place: EFL Official Website - Embargo Reporting Service It is unclear whether the terms of that embargo are the same as those which Scunthorpe and Swindon are operating under. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that two of the clubs operating under embargo . Some of the terms of the embargo are clear: 1. We can have a maximum of 23 players of professional standing (that is any player who has played at first team level in any competition bar the pizza cup) in the squad 2. We cannot pay a transfer fee for any player; we can only sign players out of contract or loanees 3. Loans can be for a maximum of 6 months (it is unclear whether one player could be here for successive loan periods) 4. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of one year 5. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of £800pw 6. If the squad is at the maximum of 23 youth players already at the club can be given contracts and added to the squad, (thereby exceeding 23) We currently have 23 players in the first team squad who meet the criteria to be classified as professional players: GKs: Leutwiler, Rogers Defenders: Clarke, Hart, McGahey, Piergianni, Jameson, Diarra, Couto Midfielders: Cisse, Adams, Whelan, Keillor-Dunn, Fage, Stobbs, Bahamboula, Hunt, Hopcutt, Missilou, Vaughan Forwards: Hope, Dearnley, Luamba But three of those (Vaughan, Couto, Luamba) are youth players added to the squad during the season. It is unclear whether during the current transfer window thos three can be excluded from the maximum squad number we can have. That leaves two possibilities: 1. We are at maximum squad numbers and can only sign another player if someone departs 2. We have three squad places available. Either way, unless the loan is repaid and the embargo lifted we are subject to the same contract restrictions as exlained above: 1. Only loans or out of contract players can come in. Which fits with Hunt & Missilou 2. Maximum £800pw 3. Maximum one year contract One might assume that if there was an intention to extricate the club from the embargo during this transfer window then appropriate steps may have been taken before the 18th day of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: 1. We are at maximum squad numbers and can only sign another player if someone departs 2. We have three squad places available. Connor Marlin said on Twitter, more signings to come- so I’m going option two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, League one forever said: Connor Marlin said on Twitter, more signings to come- so I’m going option two. Although he could know of departures, or the club may have cocked it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just now, Dave_Og said: Although he could know of departures, or the club may have cocked it up! Aye- either or both is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSizeFitz Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 What happens if Sutton, Modi or Da Silva return from their loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think Sutton played a first team game at the end of last season so would count but don't think the others have done so? If that's the case then the latter two could be brought into the squad without breaching numbers. The EFL does have the discretion to look at individual circumstances when getting onto this territory though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Let to believe there is a chance Dearnley is on his way out with a number of interested clubs in Barrow, Carlisle and Fleetwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, PeteG said: Let to believe there is a chance Dearnley is on his way out with a number of interested clubs in Barrow, Carlisle and Fleetwood It beggars belief that any football club would show the slightest interest in signing a player like Dearnley with the diabolical fitness record he has had over the last couple of seasons!! Am I missing something?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 13 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: It beggars belief that any football club would show the slightest interest in signing a player like Dearnley with the diabolical fitness record he has had over the last couple of seasons!! Am I missing something?? pay as you play I'd imagine. Not a problem if the squad numbers aren't limited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 33 minutes ago, OneSizeFitz said: What happens if Sutton, Modi or Da Silva return from their loans? 30 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: I think Sutton played a first team game at the end of last season so would count but don't think the others have done so? If that's the case then the latter two could be brought into the squad without breaching numbers. The EFL does have the discretion to look at individual circumstances when getting onto this territory though Sutton hasn't played this season. Da Silva played 45 minutes at Brentford in the League Cup and 15 minutes at Leyton Orient in the league plus he came on in the 62nd minute at Carlisle. Modi came on as a late substitute at home to Swindon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, TheBigDog said: Sutton hasn't played this season. Da Silva played 45 minutes at Brentford in the League Cup and 15 minutes at Leyton Orient in the league plus he came on in the 62nd minute at Carlisle. Modi came on as a late substitute at home to Swindon. In that case all three could count unless the random discretion of the EFL comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fervid Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: Typically, the club's lack of openness has led to misunderstandings of the extent of the restrictions that impinge on the club's freedom to build a competitive first team squad. What is not in any doubt is that we were placed under an embargo as a result of taking out a loan during the initial Covid lockdown period and failing to repay that. That embargo remains in place: EFL Official Website - Embargo Reporting Service It is unclear whether the terms of that embargo are the same as those which Scunthorpe and Swindon are operating under. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that two of the clubs operating under embargo . Some of the terms of the embargo are clear: 1. We can have a maximum of 23 players of professional standing (that is any player who has played at first team level in any competition bar the pizza cup) in the squad 2. We cannot pay a transfer fee for any player; we can only sign players out of contract or loanees 3. Loans can be for a maximum of 6 months (it is unclear whether one player could be here for successive loan periods) 4. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of one year 5. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of £800pw 6. If the squad is at the maximum of 23 youth players already at the club can be given contracts and added to the squad, (thereby exceeding 23) We currently have 23 players in the first team squad who meet the criteria to be classified as professional players: GKs: Leutwiler, Rogers Defenders: Clarke, Hart, McGahey, Piergianni, Jameson, Diarra, Couto Midfielders: Cisse, Adams, Whelan, Keillor-Dunn, Fage, Stobbs, Bahamboula, Hunt, Hopcutt, Missilou, Vaughan Forwards: Hope, Dearnley, Luamba But three of those (Vaughan, Couto, Luamba) are youth players added to the squad during the season. It is unclear whether during the current transfer window thos three can be excluded from the maximum squad number we can have. That leaves two possibilities: 1. We are at maximum squad numbers and can only sign another player if someone departs 2. We have three squad places available. Either way, unless the loan is repaid and the embargo lifted we are subject to the same contract restrictions as exlained above: 1. Only loans or out of contract players can come in. Which fits with Hunt & Missilou 2. Maximum £800pw 3. Maximum one year contract One might assume that if there was an intention to extricate the club from the embargo during this transfer window then appropriate steps may have been taken before the 18th day of it. Simple’s we owe 400k apparently for this loan. We sell anyone and the money goes straight to paying this off. Once this happens all of the above goes out the window and we are back on a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Fervid said: Simple’s we owe 400k apparently for this loan. We sell anyone and the money goes straight to paying this off. Once this happens all of the above goes out the window and we are back on a level playing field. Could be less than that now as my understanding is that solidarity payments go to pay it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, Fervid said: Simple’s we owe 400k apparently for this loan. We sell anyone and the money goes straight to paying this off. Once this happens all of the above goes out the window and we are back on a level playing field. I understood the loan to be £250k (?) and also that the Solidarity payments received have automatically reduced the original total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Scunthorpe have also expressed an interest in Dearnley, although his fitness is an obvious concern, it would be suicidal to let him join Scunthorpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave_Og said: Typically, the club's lack of openness has led to misunderstandings of the extent of the restrictions that impinge on the club's freedom to build a competitive first team squad. What is not in any doubt is that we were placed under an embargo as a result of taking out a loan during the initial Covid lockdown period and failing to repay that. That embargo remains in place: EFL Official Website - Embargo Reporting Service It is unclear whether the terms of that embargo are the same as those which Scunthorpe and Swindon are operating under. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that two of the clubs operating under embargo . Some of the terms of the embargo are clear: 1. We can have a maximum of 23 players of professional standing (that is any player who has played at first team level in any competition bar the pizza cup) in the squad 2. We cannot pay a transfer fee for any player; we can only sign players out of contract or loanees 3. Loans can be for a maximum of 6 months (it is unclear whether one player could be here for successive loan periods) 4. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of one year 5. Contracts for new signings can only be for a maximum of £800pw 6. If the squad is at the maximum of 23 youth players already at the club can be given contracts and added to the squad, (thereby exceeding 23) We currently have 23 players in the first team squad who meet the criteria to be classified as professional players: GKs: Leutwiler, Rogers Defenders: Clarke, Hart, McGahey, Piergianni, Jameson, Diarra, Couto Midfielders: Cisse, Adams, Whelan, Keillor-Dunn, Fage, Stobbs, Bahamboula, Hunt, Hopcutt, Missilou, Vaughan Forwards: Hope, Dearnley, Luamba But three of those (Vaughan, Couto, Luamba) are youth players added to the squad during the season. It is unclear whether during the current transfer window thos three can be excluded from the maximum squad number we can have. That leaves two possibilities: 1. We are at maximum squad numbers and can only sign another player if someone departs 2. We have three squad places available. Either way, unless the loan is repaid and the embargo lifted we are subject to the same contract restrictions as exlained above: 1. Only loans or out of contract players can come in. Which fits with Hunt & Missilou 2. Maximum £800pw 3. Maximum one year contract One might assume that if there was an intention to extricate the club from the embargo during this transfer window then appropriate steps may have been taken before the 18th day of it. Excellent summary @Dave_Og. Have you considered asking the club to put you in charge of all EFL-related administration?! Bit late in the day now, mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Excellent summary @Dave_Og. Have you considered asking the club to put you in charge of all EFL-related administration?! Bit late in the day now, mind Well I'm not working five days anymore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, PeteG said: Scunthorpe have also expressed an interest in Dearnley, although his fitness is an obvious concern, it would be suicidal to let him join Scunthorpe. Two words, Curtis Main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 hours ago, League one forever said: Connor Marlin said on Twitter, more signings to come- so I’m going option two. lf we are signing players then l'm going for the option where we are at the maximum and they won't play for us until late feb/early march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 46 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: lf we are signing players then l'm going for the option where we are at the maximum and they won't play for us until late feb/early march. Yeah, or option where we sign them, and then somebody reminds Mo of the rules again, so we spend the second half the season renegotiating with them to make them available for the last game, where we’ve already been relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 It's written in the stars. Dearnley goes to Scunthorpe and comes on as a substitute to score the winning goal on the 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Excellent post Mr Og! This is why we are well and truly ....ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 If the embargo loan is now £250,000 why doesn't AL pay this off considering he's always going on about the £5 million he's spent and wants the club to avoid relegation. In that respect £250,000 isn't much to a man of his supposed wealth What's he playing at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 The EFL describe "Professional Standing" as "any Player who has made one first team appearance (including as a sub) for any Club in any first team competition (EFL Trophy appearances do not count)" and "a player of Professional Standing leaving the Club on loan does not reduce the number of eligible players the Club is deemed to have." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: If the embargo loan is now £250,000 why doesn't AL pay this off considering he's always going on about the £5 million he's spent and wants the club to avoid relegation. In that respect £250,000 isn't much to a man of his supposed wealth What's he playing at? Well I don't think he's got any chance of getting what he wants for the club, regardless of what division we are in, 95% of the fan base can't stand him, he's got a few saleable assets. If i was him, i'd sell all assets, pay myself my directors loans with the income, take what i can for the club and never step foot in Oldham again and put it down to a bad experience. I certainly wouldn't be paying a new manager or any transfer fees, decent wages etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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