OASF/PTB joint fans forum

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, underdog said:

I tried to source one for OASF as part if the skillset and FOC if possible.

 

RiCS surveyors can cost about £800.00  per hour. Plus it's a big site. 

 

1895 CF can be used for this if needed

 

That's as far as I got

It won’t be a cheap undertaking so it probably makes sense to do this nearer to the point of being able to do something about it. A valuation today could be quite different to one in 12 months time. 

[oafc1955]

Just like AL, Blitz is looking to recoup as much of his outlay as he can. Everyone knows it’s not worth £6m but if that’s the price he wants then that’s the price….IMO A true valuation is probably irrelevant.

[Pidge]

10 hours ago, Monty Burns said:

this reply is editted. my orginal reply was a bit too Che.

 

l don't think people should be getting involved if they are looking to protect 'their' money or setting up schemes to protect 'those of us who put in larger amounts'

 

do the same for a quid as we do for ten grand.

 

if you got real money fair do's get involved in the consortium. if you got about ten grand spare and you want to donate it in a seperate protected my money is better fashion than the peasant £20 donations and l want it back Simon Blitz type 'donation' then these are the type of timewasting narcissists we need to be moving away from, not being blinded by their £20K (woooooo big timeee)

Monty I think you misunderstood.  £10 or £20 is easy for fans to just give to the fighting fund for the OASF to use as they wish.  A lot of us have done so, and that money should be used for expenses such as getting the valuation done.

 

However, I’m talking about larger donations for the express purpose of purchasing the land etc. (clearly the present arrangement are not encouraging larger donations or even pledges) I feel some system which does protect donations would help.  If a million pound is raised then never used to purchase the land, I would want my part of that money back, so I can decide what it gets spent on. If it gets spent on buying the land and consolidating the future of the club I support, I wouldn’t want it back, ever, but a share certificate I can frame and tell my mates about would be nice. 

[wiseowl]

9 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

The delay is 30k in the pot, we have raised fuck all. 

Yes. A lot of talk about "be positive" - ignore the negatives etc. Given that we are led to believe that Blitz wants £6m for the ground and AL similar for the badge (and ignoring whether they are realistic figures or not) - that means if, on average, every fan was to donate £100 (and that's a big average) then you would need 120,000 fans (!) donating in order to "own" the club/ground lock, stock and barrel. Never going to happen - an absolute pipe dream.

 

Effectively acting as a broker for a serious investor (with serious money) would be the optimum way forward for me. Remember the Moore years when around a quarter of a million pounds was raised by fans? It was squandered on the precious 3% shareholding for the Trust (and Barry Owen went on "his journey").

 

Think people need to take breath and re-evaluate. Would hate to see fans' money squandered again (and I also remember 2 mates buying "shares" in Oldham Rugby, to try and save them, when Watersheddings went). As one said to me last week when I told him about a possible proposed "shares" plan for Latics' fans; "you'd be better off burning £20 notes on a bonfire - it'd be more productive."

 

Negative? Or just a timely warning to absolutely get this right when you are handling people's hard earned money (particularly in these difficult times).

 

 

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

Just like AL, Blitz is looking to recoup as much of his outlay as he can. Everyone knows it’s not worth £6m but if that’s the price he wants then that’s the price….IMO A true valuation is probably irrelevant.

I get what you are saying, but if the true commercial valuation is £3m, and the fans can raise a third, and a consortium can raise the other 2/3, a proper discussion can then be had with Blitz. Hasn’t he said he would sell for a reasonable price.   Reasonable is usually, your valuation, my valuation, let’s discuss.  I’m guessing you mean the valuation is irrelevant because we as fans have nothing in the fund to offer, but having a target always helps.

[nzlatic]

24 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

Yes. A lot of talk about "be positive" - ignore the negatives etc. Given that we are led to believe that Blitz wants £6m for the ground and AL similar for the badge (and ignoring whether they are realistic figures or not) - that means if, on average, every fan was to donate £100 (and that's a big average) then you would need 120,000 fans (!) donating in order to "own" the club/ground lock, stock and barrel. Never going to happen - an absolute pipe dream.

 

Effectively acting as a broker for a serious investor (with serious money) would be the optimum way forward for me. Remember the Moore years when around a quarter of a million pounds was raised by fans? It was squandered on the precious 3% shareholding for the Trust (and Barry Owen went on "his journey").

 

Think people need to take breath and re-evaluate. Would hate to see fans' money squandered again (and I also remember 2 mates buying "shares" in Oldham Rugby, to try and save them, when Watersheddings went). As one said to me last week when I told him about a possible proposed "shares" plan for Latics' fans; "you'd be better off burning £20 notes on a bonfire - it'd be more productive."

 

Negative? Or just a timely warning to absolutely get this right when you are handling people's hard earned money (particularly in these difficult times).

 

 

It’s not a pipe dream, it’s no one’s dream. Literally no one is suggesting the fans raise £12 million by themselves. 
 

£1 million in fan and business donations is achievable though with a huge amount of effort. That then gets us in the room. Add in other investors into a consortium and buying the ground is possible. 
 

 

[oafcmetty]

41 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

 

Effectively acting as a broker for a serious investor (with serious money) would be the optimum way forward for me. Remember the Moore years when around a quarter of a million pounds was raised by fans? It was squandered on the precious 3% shareholding for the Trust (and Barry Owen went on "his journey").

 

We raised a little less than £50k. The other £200k+ was from the fundraising match - legends vs a scratch XI. This was held at BP, with the club fully supportive etc, supplying players, kits, publicity and the like. That's the only way you're going to raise real funds I think - try and get 10k in, paying £10 each, and with fundraising buckets, might get you £125k maybe. But the clowns won't let it be in BP, so it'd likely have much less appeal to the casual fan.

 

I can rent you a pitch in Wilmslow...

[nzlatic]

57 minutes ago, oafcmetty said:

We raised a little less than £50k. The other £200k+ was from the fundraising match - legends vs a scratch XI. This was held at BP, with the club fully supportive etc, supplying players, kits, publicity and the like. That's the only way you're going to raise real funds I think - try and get 10k in, paying £10 each, and with fundraising buckets, might get you £125k maybe. But the clowns won't let it be in BP, so it'd likely have much less appeal to the casual fan.

 

I can rent you a pitch in Wilmslow...

What about doing something similar at Gigg Lane? Big enough and surely would be sympathetic to our situation. 

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, oafcmetty said:

We raised a little less than £50k. The other £200k+ was from the fundraising match - legends vs a scratch XI. This was held at BP, with the club fully supportive etc, supplying players, kits, publicity and the like. That's the only way you're going to raise real funds I think - try and get 10k in, paying £10 each, and with fundraising buckets, might get you £125k maybe. But the clowns won't let it be in BP, so it'd likely have much less appeal to the casual fan.

 

I can rent you a pitch in Wilmslow...

I've explained this to @wiseowlnumerous times. It was essentially done by Gordon Lawton. 

[wiseowl]

15 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I've explained this to @wiseowlnumerous times. It was essentially done by Gordon Lawton. 

I know Dave but my point is this. No matter how the full circa £250,000 was raised; it was essentially fans' money that was put in there. All they got for it was a 3% shareholding for a wholly ineffective Trust, who effectively stood by as we withered on the vine, whilst certain individuals within it feathered their own nest. Fans' money should never be squandered in such a manner again. Any donated money needs very careful governance and a cast iron guarantee on how it is to be used.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to pay into a fund that may, for example (and has already been mentioned I think), employ a RICS surveyor to "value the ground/land" - what a waste of money! 

[Dave_Og]

3 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

I know Dave but my point is this. No matter how the full circa £250,000 was raised; it was essentially fans' money that was put in there. All they got for it was a 3% shareholding for a wholly ineffective Trust, who effectively stood by as we withered on the vine, whilst certain individuals within it feathered their own nest. Fans' money should never be squandered in such a manner again. Any donated money needs very careful governance and a cast iron guarantee on how it is to be used.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to pay into a fund that may, for example (and has already been mentioned I think), employ a RICS surveyor to "value the ground/land" - what a waste of money! 

It was barely optional re the 3%. I've gone over it so many times. 

[yarddog73]

2 hours ago, wiseowl said:

Yes. A lot of talk about "be positive" - ignore the negatives etc. Given that we are led to believe that Blitz wants £6m for the ground and AL similar for the badge (and ignoring whether they are realistic figures or not) - that means if, on average, every fan was to donate £100 (and that's a big average) then you would need 120,000 fans (!) donating in order to "own" the club/ground lock, stock and barrel. Never going to happen - an absolute pipe dream.

 

Effectively acting as a broker for a serious investor (with serious money) would be the optimum way forward for me. Remember the Moore years when around a quarter of a million pounds was raised by fans? It was squandered on the precious 3% shareholding for the Trust (and Barry Owen went on "his journey").

 

Think people need to take breath and re-evaluate. Would hate to see fans' money squandered again (and I also remember 2 mates buying "shares" in Oldham Rugby, to try and save them, when Watersheddings went). As one said to me last week when I told him about a possible proposed "shares" plan for Latics' fans; "you'd be better off burning £20 notes on a bonfire - it'd be more productive."

 

Negative? Or just a timely warning to absolutely get this right when you are handling people's hard earned money (particularly in these difficult times).

 

 

This needs a complete rethink for me as I just refuse as things stand to put another penny in to any project regardless of those pushing its intentions, I've thought about it and i would pledge a couple of thousand as well  as a regular  monthly payment but I want someone to tell me how that is protected going forward.

 

If this is something you want to avoid Dave then that is fair enough but I've heard others raise similar concerns, realistically you are not going to raise hundreds of thousands of pounds of money which fans are just prepared to write off.

[deyres42]

Independent valuation. My god. Honestly, as if Blitz will give a shit. Just put a decent enough offer in and he'll sell.

[unsworth blue]

4 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

This needs a complete rethink for me as I just refuse as things stand to put another penny in to any project regardless of those pushing its intentions, I've thought about it and i would pledge a couple of thousand as well  as a regular  monthly payment but I want someone to tell me how that is protected going forward.

 

If this is something you want to avoid Dave then that is fair enough but I've heard others raise similar concerns, realistically you are not going to raise hundreds of thousands of pounds of money which fans are just prepared to write off.

 

Yarddog, I understand what you are saying, I have just donated my season ticket money for next year and will probably look to add more. 

 

The contingency fund is for Latics fans to decide how it is used, think there was a vote on 3 or 4 scenarios and there is an 1895 Committee made up of X number of Foundation and PTB members and other independent nominees who will recommend to the membership how it will be used WHEN it is required. Fans will still have vote how to use it. 

 

Why not get involved mate? Put yourself forward as a nominee?   

[yarddog73]

20 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

Yarddog, I understand what you are saying, I have just donated my season ticket money for next year and will probably look to add more. 

 

The contingency fund is for Latics fans to decide how it is used, think there was a vote on 3 or 4 scenarios and there is an 1895 Committee made up of X number of Foundation and PTB members and other independent nominees who will recommend to the membership how it will be used WHEN it is required. Fans will still have vote how to use it. 

 

Why not get involved mate? Put yourself forward as a nominee?   

I'm happy to support financially when I'm confident the funds are protected, just as a for instance I put a couple of hundred in to the scoreboard fund and look how that went, I just cannot see a scenario where we will raise anywhere near the amount unless some effort is put in to protecting and returning if need be pledges. Only hope we have is finding 1000 people to pledge £1000 to give the kitty any sort of chance, tenners and twenties are not what we need unfortunately. 

[peanuts2]

7 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

I'm happy to support financially when I'm confident the funds are protected, just as a for instance I put a couple of hundred in to the scoreboard fund and look how that went, I just cannot see a scenario where we will raise anywhere near the amount unless some effort is put in to protecting and returning if need be pledges. Only hope we have is finding 1000 people to pledge £1000 to give the kitty any sort of chance, tenners and twenties are not what we need unfortunately. 

tell you what lets do nothing then just sit on the sidelines sniping whilst the club continues to " wither on the vine " just so we can say i told you so as my grandad used to say come up with an alternative then put up or shut up !

[deyres42]

1 minute ago, peanuts2 said:

tell you what lets do nothing then just sit on the sidelines sniping whilst the club continues to " wither on the vine " just so we can say i told you so as my grandad used to say come up with an alternative then put up or shut up !

When these supporter groups put numbers on the table, which I for one was expecting on Thursday, then it becomes reality, until then it is pie in the sky.

[oafcmetty]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

What about doing something similar at Gigg Lane? Big enough and surely would be sympathetic to our situation. 

Bury legends v Oldham legends

 

Could be a go-er, funds split 50:50 between the Bury fund and our efforts? Not sure GMP would be keen mind

[underdog]

57 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Independent valuation. My god. Honestly, as if Blitz will give a shit. Just put a decent enough offer in and he'll sell.

Genuine question what is a decent offer.

 

2 stands need replacing, 1 needs finishing,  car park needs work

 

Do you also go for the 2 plots of land. Little Wembley and Plumpton clough too?

[nzlatic]

2 minutes ago, underdog said:

Genuine question what is a decent offer.

 

2 stands need replacing, 1 needs finishing,  car park needs work

 

Do you also go for the 2 plots of land. Little Wembley and Plumpton clough too?

Eyresie’s negotiating tactic is just to offer a couple of million more than the asking price to get the deal done. 

[deyres42]

6 minutes ago, underdog said:

Genuine question what is a decent offer.

 

2 stands need replacing, 1 needs finishing,  car park needs work

 

Do you also go for the 2 plots of land. Little Wembley and Plumpton clough too?

No idea but if you are waiting to pay the price you want to pay rather than the price he wants you could be waiting a long time. And those upgrades will cost many millions more.

[Chaddyexile84]

2 hours ago, deyres42 said:

Independent valuation. My god. Honestly, as if Blitz will give a shit. Just put a decent enough offer in and he'll sell.

 

Have you ever sold a house?

 

Ever had a survey?

 

Because with that notion I'd love to sell mine to you 

[yarddog73]

1 hour ago, peanuts2 said:

tell you what lets do nothing then just sit on the sidelines sniping whilst the club continues to " wither on the vine " just so we can say i told you so as my grandad used to say come up with an alternative then put up or shut up !

On that basis then I'm out and will discontinue 'sniping' from the sidelines, good luck finding your millions with that attitude though.

[OAFC_ULTRA]

3 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

On that basis then I'm out and will discontinue 'sniping' from the sidelines, good luck finding your millions with that attitude though.

Thought that was your default stance

[yarddog73]

13 minutes ago, OAFC_ULTRA said:

Thought that was your default stance

Yes thanks for that little nugget of information.