BPAS Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: OK. Any of that that's already in place either isn't working yet or is contributing towards our perilous league position. And the rest isn't in place and might never be. Ok, but all those decisions are made in good faith and will pay dividends in the end, even if this head coach isn't the one to benefit from them. The land/stadium purchase will happen. Head of Terms have been agreed and contracts exchanged. We're just waiting for the lawyers to stop haggling over small print before completion. You don't make all those decisions and be incompetent. We know what incompetent looks like, in fact we're fkin experts in it after the last decade+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, BPAS said: Ok, but all those decisions are made in good faith and will pay dividends in the end, even if this head coach isn't the one to benefit from them. The land/stadium purchase will happen. Head of Terms have been agreed and contracts exchanged. We're just waiting for the lawyers to stop haggling over small print before completion. You don't make all those decisions and be incompetent. We know what incompetent looks like, in fact we're fkin experts in it after the last decade+ The one thing we don’t know is how competent they are at running a football club. Plenty of successful, competent businessmen have failed at doing it, as it’s a business like no other. It’s the football we all come for, not the office space etc. Until things start going right on the pitch people will ask questions as to what the hell is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, yarddog73 said: To adage an old phrase 'friendship and business don't mix' and this old boys club mentality is what's killing us, we need to move on and stop rewarding failure, you can't have a manager at the club pals with the CEO and his dad, it would be great if everything was going swimmingly but it now becomes even more awkward than when Unsworth was watching us and Shez was a sitting duck. I know that's the one you are referring to but that decision alone and the way it was facilitated is the reason we are in this huge fucking mess now. Does anybody actually know for certain that JS wasn't in the know or actively encouraging the board to replace him? Might have been agreed he would leave once they had his replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Steve_R said: The one thing we don’t know is how competent they are at running a football club. Plenty of successful, competent businessmen have failed at doing it, as it’s a business like no other. It’s the football we all come for, not the office space etc. Until things start going right on the pitch people will ask questions as to what the hell is going on. We do know they were pretty competent at saving a football club from allegedly going bust and bringing unity to whole shebang in terms of badge, buildings and land. We all know why things are not going right on the pitch, the board most certainly do. They just need to act accordingly before it's too late and that is the unknown quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 hours ago, yarddog73 said: To adage an old phrase 'friendship and business don't mix' and this old boys club mentality is what's killing us, we need to move on and stop rewarding failure, you can't have a manager at the club pals with the CEO and his dad, it would be great if everything was going swimmingly but it now becomes even more awkward than when Unsworth was watching us and Shez was a sitting duck. I know that's the one you are referring to but that decision alone and the way it was facilitated is the reason we are in this huge fucking mess now. Very wise words indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 6 hours ago, HarryBosch said: Shez, Unsworth and all the signings. Shez Sheridans trick as a manager it appears was to be the guy who you bring in in January on a Save our Season mission. His record apart from that is fairly poor. He came out of retirement last January I'm not convinced he was the man certainly at this stage in his career to take on a 3/4/5 year project. When a takeover goes through its often the case the incoming owners usually want to appoint their own man. Going back to April/May last year if the price of a takeover was the new owners appointing their own man we would have all have taken it. Unsworth On paper he didn't seem a bad choice someone with a decade plus of coaching experience at clubs much higher up than us who will have had good contacts. All positives on his C.V. regardless of his connection to the Royles and one's we should look at favourably on any future candidate. It clearly isn't working as we wanted. They will have to make a decision quickly and it will have to be decisive. Its quite possible to make the right decision at that time given the information available and for the outcome to not be what you want it happens in football on business in life. Signings Not sure what the board have done wrong here other than back the manager I'd want them to back the manager regardless they've given him what must be a top 7 budget some of those signings are good signings. The Manager should be getting more out of them. Andy has covered the other off the pitch stuff which we won't see the benefit of straight away but will over a long period of time. It's also been clearly explained aswell by Darren Royle on the podcast. Their was always going to be a learning curve here for the new board of directors. I'm hoping they are learning as they go along. Looking at their backgrounds they are very competent human beings who will do that. You could say that it's a hope that they make the right decisions but I think its a hope that is well placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 18 hours ago, yarddog73 said: I know that's the one you are referring to but that decision alone and the way it was facilitated is the reason we are in this huge fucking mess now. Are we in a "huge fucking mess" though? I don't think we are. Yes our league position is poor, but it wouldn't take that many points per game to pull away. We could probably give Unsworth another 10 games and still not be in deep relegation trouble. Off the pitch we're in a great position in terms of what the new owners have put in place, are looking to do and the land purchase etc. And the playing squad now has a decent core to it with many of the key players on contracts past this season. So it wouldn't need a massive squad overhaul if we changed managers. I think the only serious issue now at the club is the first team manager. Which is a relatively straightforward thing to fix if/when they decide to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, nzlatic said: We could probably give Unsworth another 10 games and still not be in deep relegation trouble. We need at least another 7 wins from 22 games to stay up. For context- that’s over double what he has achieved in 20 games. . . it wouldn’t be a miracle if we stayed up- but it would be a relatively big upturn in form. He has shown nothing to suggest he can achieve this. I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, League one forever said: I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. 15th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 37 minutes ago, League one forever said: We need at least another 7 wins from 22 games to stay up. For context- that’s over double what he has achieved in 20 games. . . it wouldn’t be a miracle if we stayed up- but it would be a relatively big upturn in form. He has shown nothing to suggest he can achieve this. I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. Quite scary when you put it like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 We won't be relegated under DU - but that's not my issue. He just isn't the man for the medium or long term - as clear as day. We shouldn't even be talking about anything to do with relegation though, should we, after the millions pumped into the club. A change of manager would allow us to develop a proper strategy on the pitch - because we currently don't have one! Aspirations "on the pitch" really need to match the oft lauded ones "off the pitch" - simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 minute ago, wiseowl said: We won't be relegated under DU - but that's not my issue. He just isn't the man for the medium or long term - as clear as day. We shouldn't even be talking about anything to do with relegation though, should we, after the millions pumped into the club. A change of manager would allow us to develop a proper strategy on the pitch - because we currently don't have one! Aspirations "on the pitch" really need to match the oft lauded ones "off the pitch" - simple as that. There hasn't been millions pumped into the playing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 52 minutes ago, League one forever said: We need at least another 7 wins from 22 games to stay up. For context- that’s over double what he has achieved in 20 games. . . it wouldn’t be a miracle if we stayed up- but it would be a relatively big upturn in form. He has shown nothing to suggest he can achieve this. I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. We do have 7 points from the last 4 league games to be fair which is a significant upturn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: There hasn't been millions pumped into the playing staff. I mean it shouldn't need millions. He's had a competitive budget - he's certainly had more than a lot of clubs that are above us. We need someone to make the best out of the (not insignificant) resources we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, League one forever said: We need at least another 7 wins from 22 games to stay up. For context- that’s over double what he has achieved in 20 games. . . it wouldn’t be a miracle if we stayed up- but it would be a relatively big upturn in form. He has shown nothing to suggest he can achieve this. I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. What's your calculation for concluding we need at least anther 7 wins and, presumably, the odd draw? Doubt we'll need that many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said: 15th... Anyone with half a brain can see this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 The idea that we can't judge if the owners can run a football club is an odd one. Fan engagement, tick. Community engagement, tick. Funding improvements off the pitch, tick. Funding improvements on the pitch, tick. Increase in sponsorship, tick. Not sure what more they can achieve given the division we are in and time frame they have had. We've a board member who has run a club before. Another who is a legendary manager at 2 big clubs, and Oldham, as well. Plenty of football club running knowledge. There isn't many owners / boards you'd want to swap with IMO. It could be easily argued we have never had better from the current showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 hours ago, League one forever said: We need at least another 7 wins from 22 games to stay up. For context- that’s over double what he has achieved in 20 games. . . it wouldn’t be a miracle if we stayed up- but it would be a relatively big upturn in form. He has shown nothing to suggest he can achieve this. I dread to think where we’ll be if he stays another ten games. What a load of shite. A relatively big upturn in form? We've moved out of the relegation zone and have up to 3 games in hand on some teams. Last 4 games have produced 2 wins and a draw. Recent league form is fine. If this form carries on we'll be mid table in those 10 games you mention. If it drops off he'll be off. Why people are arsed about the form in October when half that side is bombed out I'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, Clifford said: Anyone with half a brain can see this 5 minutes ago, Clifford said: What a load of shite. A relatively big upturn in form? We've moved out of the relegation zone and have up to 3 games in hand on some teams. Last 4 games have produced 2 wins and a draw. Recent league form is fine. If this form carries on we'll be mid table in those 10 games you mention. If it drops off he'll be off. Why people are arsed about the form in October when half that side is bombed out I'll never know. Yeah, it’s weird isn’t it- games in August, September, October, November don’t count really. . . Our season starts now. If his overall form continues in those ten games we’ll roughly win two, draw a couple and lose 6. And we’ll be right in the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, League one forever said: Yeah, it’s weird isn’t it- games in August, September, October, November don’t count really. . . Our season starts now. If his overall form continues in those ten games we’ll roughly win two, draw a couple and lose 6. And we’ll be right in the shit. An improvement has to start at some point. That point may well be signing Nutall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, JoeP said: I mean it shouldn't need millions. He's had a competitive budget - he's certainly had more than a lot of clubs that are above us. People repeat this as if it's gospel. The players we've signed are shite and surely aren't costing much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 41 minutes ago, Clifford said: The idea that we can't judge if the owners can run a football club is an odd one. Fan engagement, tick. Community engagement, tick. Funding improvements off the pitch, tick. Funding improvements on the pitch, tick. Increase in sponsorship, tick. Not sure what more they can achieve given the division we are in and time frame they have had. Do I have to tell him or can one of you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Do I have to tell him or can one of you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, JoeP said: I mean it shouldn't need millions. He's had a competitive budget - he's certainly had more than a lot of clubs that are above us. We need someone to make the best out of the (not insignificant) resources we have. We are starting from such a low point that the only way to turn that around quickly is to spend more on player wages than your rivals are doing. Anything else takes time and luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: People repeat this as if it's gospel. The players we've signed are shite and surely aren't costing much I don't know how many of Unsworth's signings involved a fee, but £100k for Nuttall is the most we've spent on a player for a while. Maybe it's the players that are shite, but I have an inkling that it might be more to do with who's managing them. 3 minutes ago, deyres42 said: We are starting from such a low point that the only way to turn that around quickly is to spend more on player wages than your rivals are doing. Anything else takes time and luck. Which we have done, if the aim was to consolidate. As I say, no one expected promotion, but no one expected this level of rubbish either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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