nzlatic Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 10 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: So do I but to suggest his poor performances can be excused by the team's style of play is stretching it quite a bit. Agreed his style is languid but it's is a very poor one for a central forward. They need to be busy chasing balls into the box or holding up the ball waiting for support, none of which he's seemed capable of. He has no great desire to score goals which is a pre-requisite in a centre forward. Since Norwood arrived I've seen him slide in against the goalie whilst scoring against Chesterfield and follow up Dickenson's shot at Gateshead ending up in the back of the net with a defender, showing a yearning for goals that sadly Nuttall lacks. I can't remember Nuttall being off his feet much in any match. I hope I'm wrong but he looks to lack the basic instinct to be a footballer. All that seems to be about what you want to see from a striker. Different strikers will have different styles. He didn't fit in with our fans and the way he was played didn't work that well. Clearly Darrell Clarke in league one thinks he might work out for them and he's got a decent record as a manager. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 38 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: if the ball's put in Lee Johnson's famed "corridor of uncertainty" he'll normally bury it. How do you come to that conclusion….how many times have you seen him do it? He has absolutely no desire, as has been said he absolutely coasted through games. Admittedly service to the strikers has been piss poor but he hardly ever got into the box and spent most of his time on the wings. He’s a big lad but hardly won anything in the air, he rarely chased back and his control and first touch was bloody woeful! If he doesn’t up his work rate considerably in a struggling Cheltenham side the fans will be on his back very quickly. I think Clarke has took a massive gamble on him because he can’t have been scouted, he hasn’t even played for several weeks. I reckon he’ll end up back here !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, nzlatic said: Or not, if the previous Tuesday is anything to go by! I presume he's banking on Conlon to deliver central creativity more regularly once he's match fit. And that Sachdev will provide a threat on the right too meaning teams can't just mark Kitching out of the game and nullify us. Well, yes - but inconsistency is the issue that needs resolving! I'd actually bring Green back into the fold. Brings a bit of width, gets balls into the box, scores the odd goal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, JoeP said: Well, yes - but inconsistency is the issue that needs resolving! I'd actually bring Green back into the fold. Brings a bit of width, gets balls into the box, scores the odd goal... Baring injuries I don’t think Green or Reid will get into another match day squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JoeP said: Well, yes - but inconsistency is the issue that needs resolving! I'd actually bring Green back into the fold. Brings a bit of width, gets balls into the box, scores the odd goal... Alfie is far better and ready to take on whoever is the opposition. Unfortunately, MM wasn't at Chapell Road this week though to see him. It's my honest opinion if he was at a top EPL academy he'd be called up for England u18s. No chance at little non league club Oldham. Edited February 2 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 13 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: Baring injuries I don’t think Green or Reid will get into another match day squad. I think you're right - certainly about Reid. I'm still not convinced the midfield issue is "solved" and hope MM is open minded enough to maybe give Green another go if the midfield go AWOL again over the next couple of games.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, nzlatic said: All that seems to be about what you want to see from a striker. Different strikers will have different styles. He didn't fit in with our fans and the way he was played didn't work that well. Clearly Darrell Clarke in league one thinks he might work out for them and he's got a decent record as a manager. Not the be all and end all showing a bit of desire. If someone was playing shit and swanning about but still scoring goals then OK, but to do the first bits and not score much, if at all, is next to useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 34 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Unfortunately, MM wasn't at Chapell Road this week though That is somewhat disappointing if Melon did not take the opportunity - was Brabin there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: That is somewhat disappointing if Melon did not take the opportunity - was Brabin there? The vast majority of managers rely on youth team staff to give them progress reports on the youngsters and, if they are deemed to be ready, are invited to join first team training. I'm sure that if Atherton, or any others, are thought to be ready by our professional coaches then they will be fast tracked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norewgian Gunnar Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Cheltenham made four signings yesterday including Nuttall. I am surprised he has gone up two leagues. As others have said he is languid and every time I saw him play since arriving he won very little in the air and hardly ever held up the ball like Fondop can. Kurt never has had a chance really so hope he does well at Ayr to revive his career. Both will likely be back at the end of the season anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, oafc1955 said: How do you come to that conclusion….how many times have you seen him do it? Do what? Score when the ball was put into his 'zone'? A handful of times, that's all. Nowhere near enough. I just don't think we played to his strengths and put in enough quality forward balls for him. He was made to play a target man's role when he plainly just isn't that. You, and many others, clearly just don't rate him. That's fine, I've no problem with that. I wish him well and hope he finds his groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Boyyou said: The vast majority of managers rely on youth team staff to give them progress reports on the youngsters and, if they are deemed to be ready, are invited to join first team training. I'm sure that if Atherton, or any others, are thought to be ready by our professional coaches then they will be fast tracked. Well if possessing every attribute in the book to a high level and a sheer will to win with no fear doesn't impress them I don't know what will. Walker in the left and Atherton on the right would take this league apart. Edited February 2 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 The running thing really bugs me- it’s used in a really patronising way, as in oh because he doesn’t run means he’s shit, or people find funny names like - he has a languid style. It’s used the other way as well- I want more than from somebody who just runs around a lot. Well - football is about pressing, closing down, movement off the ball, tracking back, working the channels. All these things require running, and a want and desire to run. Running as it happens is quite fundamental to a being footballer. When you do non of the above you’d better be absolutely brilliant to make up for the others doing your running or the team just carries you. It transpires that 5PM quite likes players that run. Big Mikey isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he plays a lot. Reid and Nuttall don’t. I wonder why. Sutton has played a lot in unnnatural position and Green doesn’t. I wonder why. Sheron plays every game - I wonder why. He’s signs 56 year old Garner because he works his bollocks off. I wonder why. Klopp and Pep quite like people that run as well, it’s almost as if running is a receipt for success. Lazy sorry languid players don’t tend to feature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, BP1960 said: Well if possessing every attribute in the book to a high level and a sheer will to win with no fear doesn't impress them I don't know what will. What's he still doing in our Academy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 49 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Do what? Score when the ball was put into his 'zone'? A handful of times, that's all. Nowhere near enough. I just don't think we played to his strengths and put in enough quality forward balls for him. He was made to play a target man's role when he plainly just isn't that. You, and many others, clearly just don't rate him. That's fine, I've no problem with that. I wish him well and hope he finds his groove. He’s just said in his interview at Cheltenham that he prefers to get the ball with his back to goal…..I suggest that’s exactly what he got here from day one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, League one forever said: The running thing really bugs me- it’s used in a really patronising way, as in oh because he doesn’t run means he’s shit, or people find funny names like - he has a languid style. It’s used the other way as well- I want more than from somebody who just runs around a lot. Well - football is about pressing, closing down, movement off the ball, tracking back, working the channels. All these things require running, and a want and desire to run. Running as it happens is quite fundamental to a being footballer. When you do non of the above you’d better be absolutely brilliant to make up for the others doing your running or the team just carries you. It transpires that 5PM quite likes players that run. Big Mikey isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he plays a lot. Reid and Nuttall don’t. I wonder why. Sutton has played a lot in unnnatural position and Green doesn’t. I wonder why. Sheron plays every game - I wonder why. He’s signs 56 year old Garner because he works his bollocks off. I wonder why. Klopp and Pep quite like people that run as well, it’s almost as if running is a receipt for success. Lazy sorry languid players don’t tend to feature. Horses for courses. I've no issue with Mellon not including players because he prefers runners. If Nuttall doesn't fit in with that then it's of course best for him to go and play somewhere more suited to his style. I also don't have an issue with fans who prefer runners, we all have our own preferences. But what I do have an issue with is fans who declare a player as too lazy to be a footballer or talk in absolute terms about their mental state or desire or laziness. It's this sort of talk that leads to players getting booed on, or cheered when their number goes up on the subs board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Horses for courses. I've no issue with Mellon not including players because he prefers runners. If Nuttall doesn't fit in with that then it's of course best for him to go and play somewhere more suited to his style. I also don't have an issue with fans who prefer runners, we all have our own preferences. But what I do have an issue with is fans who declare a player as too lazy to be a footballer or talk in absolute terms about their mental state or desire or laziness. It's this sort of talk that leads to players getting booed on, or cheered when their number goes up on the subs board. I've defended Nuttall since his arrival to people sitting near me at BP and never booed my team or any of it's players but some footballer's attitudes don't help their cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, nzlatic said: But what I do have an issue with is fans who declare a player as too lazy to be a footballer or talk in absolute terms about their mental state or desire or laziness. I have no idea about his mental state, nor would I ever comment on it. However to quote Mellon. I watch with my eyes. His style- was to, Shrink when challenging for a header. Get bossed off the ball, or not compete for it. Drift out of the game to the point of non existent. That was his style, and that style lacks desire or an unwillingness to compete. I’m not guessing. That is what I actuallywatched. Running isn’t a style or preference it’s an absolute must from everyone, unless like Norwood ( who has been criticised for not always looking up for it) you’re our top scorer and if he doesn’t work he more than makes up for it with how clinical he is. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 In fact- I can dissect this into one sentence. Joe Nuttall is nowhere good enough to not run. James Norwood is more than good enough to not run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, League one forever said: In fact- I can dissect this into one sentence. Joe Nuttall is nowhere good enough to not run. James Norwood is more than good enough to not run. It's guesswork though unless you have his data. When it comes to style, you could have 2 players cover the exact same distance over 90 minutes but you'd think one covered more because of their style. There are loads of other variables too - such as what are they being asked to do? For me it's too simplistic to write off a footballer because he's perceived to not run around enough. Again, my issue is not with those critical but with those claiming to know his mentality or writing him off completely as a footballer. It just hasn't worked out here. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 23 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: He’s just said in his interview at Cheltenham that he prefers to get the ball with his back to goal…..I suggest that’s exactly what he got here from day one!! It's a shame he tries to control the ball with his shins then.... he couldn't trap a bag of cement being one of his main frailties, he's a nothing player for me, bullied week in week out. Probably shone in an U23 league where he would have physically stood out but not enough desire to play against men each week. Strangely it will probably suit him better in League 1 than in the bare knuckle environment that is the National League. I hope it works out for him and Cheltenham want to keep him, at least we'll lose him off the wage bill, I suspect Clarke won't put up with him cruising half hearted through games like he did here but at least he's been given an opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 13 minutes ago, League one forever said: In fact- I can dissect this into one sentence. Joe Nuttall is nowhere good enough to not run. James Norwood is more than good enough to not run. Two sentences. Agree with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Boyyou said: The vast majority of managers rely on youth team staff to give them progress reports on the youngsters and, if they are deemed to be ready, are invited to join first team training. I'm sure that if Atherton, or any others, are thought to be ready by our professional coaches then they will be fast tracked. I’m sure you are right but it does seem strange that, given the opportunity to see the players first hand and in a competitive game, more choose not to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 27 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: I've defended Nuttall since his arrival to people sitting near me at BP and never booed my team or any of it's players but some footballer's attitudes don't help their cause. What options does the ordinary fan have, when at a game, to express his/her displeasure when witnessing a horror show out on the pitch? Watching the first half against Woking was embarrassing - do the fans just accept it? Maybe, instead of booing, we could adopt the white hankie approach used by Spanish fans? Or turn our backs to the pitch when the players are trooping off? Nah… I may not boo individuals but the team as a whole are fair game… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 24 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: I’m sure you are right but it does seem strange that, given the opportunity to see the players first hand and in a competitive game, more choose not to Perhaps he was busy at first team training or sorting out the signing of Garner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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