MATCH: Altrincham (H) 28/10/23

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

1 hour ago, HarryBosch said:

And our best crosser Kitchings crosses, whilst easy on the eye, rarely amount to anything.

 

I don't know, I think he's fairly consistent with his crosses and end product. He often gets them in and past the full back and they frequently cause problems for opposing defences as high looping ones tend to do. His crossing ability isn't in question for me. His defensive work needs improvement, but I can accept that will always get better over time. 

 

Speaking of crosses, more often, it's the scuffed, shanked ones which always seem to create panic. There was one on Saturday from the right (Green I think) which Alty didn't know what to do with.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Frankly Mr Shankly

[Bobledgersheart]

16 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Speaking of crosses, more often, it's the scuffed, shanked ones which always seem to create panic. There was one on Saturday from the right (Green I think) which Alty didn't know what to do with.

I've maintained all along that it really doesn't matter that much how good the cross is (we've no one who is a good header of a ball ) just get it in the box and Norwood will pick up the pieces.

[JoeP]

17 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

He can’t play a simple pass. 

 

An absolute myth.

 

He's suffering the same fan treatment as Gardner did in his last spell here - and Gardner's now our most important midfielder in many eyes!  A lot of our fans love to slate a player who gets involved more than any other and in doing so, makes the odd mistake.

 

Sheron can pass, tackle, score from midfield (2 in 3 now..) and was our Player of the Season last year.  His only real crime is being played next to Shelton, who I'm afraid needs to up his game a lot.

[Bobledgersheart]

Have to take issue with the above, he is a poor passer of the ball.....but well worth his place in our current team.

[andy_b_100]

I will say this about the penalty ... the ball struck his arm because he was fouled/pushed ... their player right next to him didnt appeal (along with all the other players) no flag from asst ref .... Hope got up expecting a free kick....... Now watch the highlights again ... there is absolutely no way in the world the ref saw that .... he was 15-20 yards away. What in the name of all gods fuckery was he doing placing the ball on the centre circle with a dance ....... look at me ..... look at me. I kinda hoped someone filmed it so someone could sent it to the governing body. He should never referee anywhere again...... if that wasnt enough Green gets chopped and he awards them a free kick .... then the throw in debacle. I would say that we win that with a different referee. 

[mcfluff1985]

9 hours ago, HarryBosch said:

 

Both goals came from well worked passing into/close the box.... 

 

Wingers are too inconsistent at this level.

And our best crosser Kitchings crosses, whilst easy on the eye, rarely amount to anything.

 

 

On Saturday maybe. 

 

Our goals against Rochdale came about from what?

 

Goal one cos we put a cross in that caused some panic

 

Goal two, a cross

 

 

 

 

[Monty Burns]

22 hours ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I've maintained all along that it really doesn't matter that much how good the cross is (we've no one who is a good header of a ball ) just get it in the box and Norwood will pick up the pieces.

if he's in there. he probs started the move gettin himself outa trouble playin a 1-2 with our cornerflag.

love his touch for Lundstrum in Sherons goal you just know he's tellin him 'get that hit' after Lundstrum gives it 

[Summerdeep]

20 hours ago, andy_b_100 said:

I will say this about the penalty ... the ball struck his arm because he was fouled/pushed ... their player right next to him didnt appeal (along with all the other players) no flag from asst ref .... Hope got up expecting a free kick....... Now watch the highlights again ... there is absolutely no way in the world the ref saw that .... he was 15-20 yards away. What in the name of all gods fuckery was he doing placing the ball on the centre circle with a dance ....... look at me ..... look at me. I kinda hoped someone filmed it so someone could sent it to the governing body. He should never referee anywhere again...... if that wasnt enough Green gets chopped and he awards them a free kick .... then the throw in debacle. I would say that we win that with a different referee. 

 

There was a time when penalties for handball were only given when they were blatant offences, such as defenders diving to push the ball round the post or over the bar like a second goalkeeper, sticking out an arm to punch away a cross, or whatever. Then sometime around a couple of decades ago, referees suddenly started awarding penalties for handballs that were clearly involuntary or accidental, including when the ball was blasted against a player's arm from virtually point-blank range. The introduction of VAR at higher levels made this even worse, such as with the ludicrous penalty awarded against Croatia in the 2018 World Cup Final. 

 

It's one of countless features of the modern game that I find so alienating and made me lose all interest in watching matches, even on TV. The comment in the above post about the ridiculous power-games and posing of modern referees is also a good one. Before I stopped watching football completely, I saw numerous examples of referees and linesmen who gave a goal by ruling that the ball was a couple of inches over the line, despite the fact that they were 30-40 yards away from the action and couldn't possibly know that this was the case. As you say, it's essentially a 'Look at me, aren't I clever?' kind of thing.

[Ackey]

1 hour ago, Summerdeep said:

 

There was a time when penalties for handball were only given when they were blatant offences, such as defenders diving to push the ball round the post or over the bar like a second goalkeeper, sticking out an arm to punch away a cross, or whatever. Then sometime around a couple of decades ago, referees suddenly started awarding penalties for handballs that were clearly involuntary or accidental, including when the ball was blasted against a player's arm from virtually point-blank range. The introduction of VAR at higher levels made this even worse, such as with the ludicrous penalty awarded against Croatia in the 2018 World Cup Final. 

 

It's one of countless features of the modern game that I find so alienating and made me lose all interest in watching matches, even on TV. The comment in the above post about the ridiculous power-games and posing of modern referees is also a good one. Before I stopped watching football completely, I saw numerous examples of referees and linesmen who gave a goal by ruling that the ball was a couple of inches over the line, despite the fact that they were 30-40 yards away from the action and couldn't possibly know that this was the case. As you say, it's essentially a 'Look at me, aren't I clever?' kind of thing.

Agree - and the same can be said of offside, which was a rule to stop goal-hanging and not to decide which single pixel of shirt is further forward than the other.

 

[Boroblue]

2 hours ago, Ackey said:

Agree - and the same can be said of offside, which was a rule to stop goal-hanging and not to decide which single pixel of shirt is further forward than the other.

 

…..and level is onside, when did VAR ever declare a player level?

[Ogdenwoodwhittle]

28 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

…..and level is onside, when did VAR ever declare a player level?

Agreed, ans also I don't understand how a players starched collar ahead of his opponent's sock, is deemed to be 'seeking to gain an advantage'  unless you are Brian Cox and have the ability to timed your run to the millisecond.

[disjointed]

1 hour ago, Ogdenwoodwhittle said:

Agreed, ans also I don't understand how a players starched collar ahead of his opponent's sock, is deemed to be 'seeking to gain an advantage'  unless you are Brian Cox and have the ability to timed your run to the millisecond.

Correct, for me a player shouldn't be offside if any part of the defender and attacker are overlapping, there should be daylight between the 2. It may cause as many problems as now but for me if more goals get scored so be it. 

[Bobledgersheart]

12 minutes ago, disjointed said:

Correct, for me a player shouldn't be offside if any part of the defender and attacker are overlapping, there should be daylight between the 2. It may cause as many problems as now but for me if more goals get scored so be it. 

Surely that would be harder to judge initially ? 

Offside is probably the best thing that VAR consistently get right but we still have reservations on it's use, at least I do.

 

The one rule change I'd make is no attacking players allowed in the six yard box when a corner is being taken. 

This would encourage attackers to actually move towards the flight of the ball instead of blocking the goalie and allow goalies to come to catch the ball instead of pushing attackers then falling to the ground claiming a foul.

 

[disjointed]

1 minute ago, Bobledgersheart said:

Surely that would be harder to judge initially ? 

Offside is probably the best thing that VAR consistently get right but we still have reservations on it's use, at least I do.

 

The one rule change I'd make is no attacking players allowed in the six yard box when a corner is being taken. 

This would encourage attackers to actually move towards the flight of the ball instead of blocking the goalie and allow goalies to come to catch the ball instead of pushing attackers then falling to the ground claiming a foul.

 

The problem really is VAR, it is trying to get it it to the minutest distance, let the linesmen and refs get on with it and we can all argue about it afterwards. And football match analysts get rid of them all, show the games by all means but we don't need everything di-secting. 

[mcfluff1985]

2 minutes ago, disjointed said:

The problem really is VAR, it is trying to get it it to the minutest distance, let the linesmen and refs get on with it and we can all argue about it afterwards. And football match analysts get rid of them all, show the games by all means but we don't need everything di-secting. 

They use a different one in Europe. Automatic like the goal one isn't it. Easier. No hum error I don't think. Scrap VAR for everything else. It's gone from ref making a bad decision to someone else making bad decisions hiding behind "clear and obvious"

[nzlatic]

Don’t mind goal line technology confirming if the ball is over the line or not. VAR is a joke for many reasons but especially the offside. Not sure why they don’t adopt an “umpire’s call” type rule with offside. Where if it’s within a certain percentage tolerance then the on field decision stands. If it’s obviously wrong one way or the other then the decision is changed. 

[Bobledgersheart]

I don't like VAR but don't get the tolerance argument also. If you're offside even by the smallest of margins, you're offside

[nzlatic]

27 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I don't like VAR but don't get the tolerance argument also. If you're offside even by the smallest of margins, you're offside

Because the cameras aren’t capable of proving 100% one way or another on really tight decisions. The players move faster than the frame rate. So between 2 frames of a shot there could be quite a distance of movement making the difference between off and on. Same goes for the moment when the ball is kicked.

[LightDN123]

31 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I don't like VAR but don't get the tolerance argument also. If you're offside even by the smallest of margins, you're offside

But the argument is that the technology is not 100% accurate and therefore correct (see the line / camera angle argument ).

 

The tolerance gives this some leeway and ultimately goes with the referees on field decision. Which they are paid to do. 

[another fan]

I used to think that VAR was good for the game.That changed for me when the penalty decision was not overturned in the FA Cup game at Fulham. Nothing has caused me to change my mind

[mcfluff1985]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

Because the cameras aren’t capable of proving 100% one way or another on really tight decisions. The players move faster than the frame rate. So between 2 frames of a shot there could be quite a distance of movement making the difference between off and on. Same goes for the moment when the ball is kicked.

 

2 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

But the argument is that the technology is not 100% accurate and therefore correct (see the line / camera angle argument ).

 

The tolerance gives this some leeway and ultimately goes with the referees on field decision. Which they are paid to do. 

 

Give VAR a maximum of 30 seconds to check. If they can't say 100% then it remains with the on field decision

[LightDN123]

13 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

 

 

Give VAR a maximum of 30 seconds to check. If they can't say 100% then it remains with the on field decision

Agree. But the issue is the actual technology isn’t accurate. So they could be 100% correct based on the image they see, but ultimately arrive at the wrong decision because the image they are reviewing is incorrect. 

 

[League one forever]

6 hours ago, disjointed said:

Correct, for me a player shouldn't be offside if any part of the defender and attacker are overlapping, there should be daylight between the 2. It may cause as many problems as now but for me if more goals get scored so be it. 

Asanti (think that’s right) scored for West Brom last night. 
 

His trailing leg was level, but his lead leg and body were offside- but obviously no VAR and the linesman didn’t flag so it was a goal. When you watch it back though, his body position gives him the first half yard for free and as ball get played through and the defender corrects his body position he’s now 3-4 yards in front of him, and he can’t recover from what looked like an equal position 2 seconds earlier. 
 

The day light rule would have made this an even bigger gap, and I don’t think that’s fair. (Even though I agree we want to see goals) 

[TheBigDog]

Get rid of VAR. Sorted.

[Monty Burns]

12 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

It's gone from ref making a bad decision to someone else making bad decisions 

sum up VAR in a sentence!!!