MATCH: Ebbsfleet United (H) 25/11/23

[GlossopLatic]

6 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

^ I was thinking more steel toecaps!

 

As you probably gather, the post was at least half tongue-in-cheek, but still, I bet if someone did a survey of all the goals Latics ever scored at the Chaddy End when it was the home end, regardless of any slope on the pitch, it would probably be closer to a 60-40 ratio than 50-50 vis a vis the Rochdale End. From my own recollections of attending matches at Boundary Park, the ratio of goals might well have been over 60-40.

 

As I pointed out in a recent post, yesterday's defeat was our 218th at BP since Royle left as manager in the mid-1990s, a disgraceful record.

 

Food for thought, or maybe ought to be!

 

The atmosphere created by the athleticos in the last 2 years in the Jimmy Frizz RRE has been far better than the atmosphere created in the chaddy between 1995-2015 when we officially swapped ends which considering we haven't really had anything on the pitch to really get excited about is a real plus point and one we shouldn't lose.

 

The Chaddy has a lot of nostalgia value to alot of fans and me aswell if I'm honest it's where I had my first season ticket but I'm not sure we should now be moving ends. Don't forget the chaddy was and has been open to home fans this season but their was barely 100 people in there yesterday.

[Summerdeep]

I wouldn't want to go there either at £20 a pop, or whatever it is these days!

[JoeP]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

Fans create the expectation but it’s up to the club to recruit players who can handle that. And it’s up to the management and players to create an environment where players can deal with the pressure more easily.

 

There’s nothing wrong with fans expecting to be pushing for promotion.

 

Absolutely.

 

But the fans' expectation isn't going to change whether it's Barnet away or Ebbsfleet at home, so why does the players'? They're mentally strong for the "tough" games, but can't bring that mentality to the games they're expected to win.  It's a type of mental weakness, but it's possibly not the pressure they can't cope with, more the ability to raise their game for lesser teams...

[JoeP]

12 minutes ago, wiseowl said:

He's seething there and quite emotional at times too. He knows we need rid of quite a few players and fresh ones in. Unfortunately, according to what I have been told before, the amount of money wasted on the "ex-Everton" experiment means purse strings are a lot tighter than they were. 

 

Sounds about right - an expensive learning curve for Frank et al.

 

Mellon gets a free hit for me for at least the next year.  Not only does he have to deal with fan expectation, he's got to deal with the (albeit well intentioned) mistake in appointing Unsworth.

 

If we'd have stuck with Shez and given him no budget, I reckon we'd probably be in a not dissimilar position to where we are now - and had cash in the bank to spend!

[wiseowl]

7 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Sounds about right - an expensive learning curve for Frank et al.

 

Mellon gets a free hit for me for at least the next year.  Not only does he have to deal with fan expectation, he's got to deal with the (albeit well intentioned) mistake in appointing Unsworth.

 

If we'd have stuck with Shez and given him no budget, I reckon we'd probably be in a not dissimilar position to where we are now - and had cash in the bank to spend!

I think if we'd stuck with Shez and given him a reasonable budget - we'd be in a far healthier position today.  Quote from the Oldham Times in July 2022 :-

 

Royle, who has been named as a director just over 40 years after his appointment as Oldham boss, says the immediate aim for the club is to "get out of this division".

And he is backing Sheridan to achieve it.

"We've got to get out of this division as soon as possible, and it's a hard division," said Royle.

"We can do it. John knows his stuff, he knows what he wants, which is important."

[nzlatic]

17 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Absolutely.

 

But the fans' expectation isn't going to change whether it's Barnet away or Ebbsfleet at home, so why does the players'? They're mentally strong for the "tough" games, but can't bring that mentality to the games they're expected to win.  It's a type of mental weakness, but it's possibly not the pressure they can't cope with, more the ability to raise their game for lesser teams...

For the same reason Ebbsfleet got beat 0-4 at home to Oxford the other week but in reverse. They can turn it on in some games but not others. It is a mental deficiency. 

[Charles or Eddie]

17 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

You and Captain Doom & Gloom spectacularly miss the point. Had we lost 4-1 at home to an Ebbsfleet when we were in L1 or higher, you just might have a point. In case you haven’t noticed, we are in the same league as Ebbsfleet and it’s for a reason. There are some unbelievably hysterical posts on here (even by OWTB standards) following what is of course a bad result. They scored 3 in the last 10 minutes, we were chasing the game. Shouldn’t happen, but it does. MM learns a bit more about his squad and we move on.

 

Solihull, 4th in the table, were  thrashed 6-1 at Altrincham today - are they suddenly a bad team/relegation candidates? Of course not - it’s the nature of this league. Any team can beat any other and the overall standard is haphazard. Let’s all calm down, get a grip, and trust MM.

Which is the point I made after the Barnet game, yet you decided to try and take some higher ground on. Yet are now stating the same point of view? However, I'm not going to lower myself by saying you've made yourself look silly now

[JoeP]

32 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

For the same reason Ebbsfleet got beat 0-4 at home to Oxford the other week but in reverse. They can turn it on in some games but not others. It is a mental deficiency. 

 

I think fundamentally we're making the same point...

[League one forever]

If there’s one crumb of comfort it’s Micky’s post match presser,  it was exactly how I felt and what I was thinking on the game. He talks so much sense, and that in itself gives me a bit hope. 
 

As Micky and a few have said on here, the mentality of playing for Oldham has to be right. To not get a base level of performance yesterday is unacceptable. All the players are talented, but they lack the desire and self motivation to get the best out of themselves consistently. 
 

 

[Londonboy]

3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

Fylde were lower ranked 

True but we weren't at home....

[Londonboy]

2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

The majority of them are good enough to make up a squad that challenges for promotion.

 

We don't need wholesale changes we just need a few tweeks.

I really don't think they are and we need more than a few tweeks.

Compare us to recently promoted sides, Stockport, Wrexham, Notts County and Chesterfield this season, and we are way off them. They rarely get beaten by bottom 4 sides and had/had exceptional home records.

How many of our stating 11 today would get in theirs the season they got promoted?

Maybe Norwood and Hobson on current form and that's it!!

We are an aging squad with an average age of 28/29.

We have no quick and hungry wide players like we see at most NL sides and are still woeful creatively in midfield.

 

We may yet squeeze into the playoffs if MM can add a few bodies where it's glaringly obvious we need them, but I'm almost resigned to another season in the NL, and a proper tilt at winning it next year.

 

[deyres42]

1 hour ago, wiseowl said:

He's seething there and quite emotional at times too. He knows we need rid of quite a few players and fresh ones in. Unfortunately, according to what I have been told before, the amount of money wasted on the "ex-Everton" experiment means purse strings are a lot tighter than they were. 

When you say wasted do you mean on Unsworth and Ebbrell themselves?

[oafc1955]

16 hours ago, deyres42 said:

I don't get this notion that Mellon needs to feel his way into the job. Surely a major factor in appointing him was that he's seen and done it all at this level and that negated the need for a prolonged period of bedding in?

FFS!!!….he’s been here little more than 1 month, he’s probably not even absorbed their fucking names properly yet!!!

 

Of course he needs a bit of time to evaluate the squad and give everyone a chance to impress.

 

This isn’t his squad and judging by his after match assessment yesterday he probably now has a much better understanding of what’s required!

 

We have known for a while that this squad isn’t good enough and that we were going nowhere under Unsworth.
If there is no money to strengthen then we’ll just have to be patient.

We may or may not achieve a playoff place but I’m pretty sure that next season we will be a totally different proposition!

[JoeP]

7 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

When you say wasted do you mean on Unsworth and Ebbrell themselves?

 

Wasted on them, wasted on the players they brought in, surely?

[deyres42]

8 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

FFS!!!….he’s been here little more than 1 month, he’s probably not even absorbed their fucking names properly yet!!!

 

Of course he needs a bit of time to evaluate the squad and give everyone a chance to impress.

 

This isn’t his squad and judging by his after match assessment yesterday he probably now has a much better understanding of what’s required!

 

We have known for a while that this squad isn’t good enough and that we were going nowhere under Unsworth.
If there is no money to strengthen then we’ll just have to be patient.

We may or may not achieve a playoff place but I’m pretty sure that next season we will be a totally different proposition!

Most of the players should be known to him with all the analysis and data tools available these days and the performances suggest he isn’t trying to reinvent the wheel so there really shouldn't need to be a prolonged period of assessment.

[deyres42]

11 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Wasted on them, wasted on the players they brought in, surely?

Plenty of people were suggesting only the manager needed changing...

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Most of the players should be known to him with all the analysis and data tools available these days and the performances suggest he isn’t trying to reinvent the wheel so there really shouldn't need to be a prolonged period of assessment.

I know- I wish David Dunn was still here. . .

[oafc1955]

19 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Most of the players should be known to him with all the analysis and data tools available these days and the performances suggest he isn’t trying to reinvent the wheel so there really shouldn't need to be a prolonged period of assessment.

Well then why not just let the analyst’s pick the team. Do you really think a month is a prolonged period!!

[JoeP]

23 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Plenty of people were suggesting only the manager needed changing...

 

Probably guilty of that myself.  With the money spent, you would think someone would be able to get something out of the players.

 

But it turns out not only was Unsworth shit at tactics and coaching, he was shit in the transfer market to!

[deyres42]

4 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

Well then why not just let the analyst’s pick the team. Do you really think a month is a prolonged period!!

No, a top 2/3 budget dictates that the bedding in period is shorter though, especially when you appoint someone with vast experience.

[Careca9]

4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

It's a very small sample size but in the 8 games (including the FA cup game against Newport) Mellon has taken charge our home and away form seems in contrast

 

Home P3 W0 D2 L1 

Away P5 W3 D0 L2

 

Are we more comfortable playing away from home? I suppose some will look at that and say that the expectation of the Boundary Park crowd weighs heavy on the shoulders, and its fair point.

 

However I do feel that the squad we have is more suited to playing a style of sitting back and counter attacking rather than taking the game to the opposition. I think we need to find a way to win games at home when the onus is on us to take control of the game like yesterday. I do believe we need a magic man/codebreaker type in the mold of Jose Baxter/Jack Byrne/ or even Harry Vaughan who could unlock a defense in a game like that get us ahead in the game and then we will be less likely to get counter attacked like yesterday.

The stats back up what we can all see. Away when we play on break and don’t have to pass or create and can dink balls forward we are ok. At home when we need to pass and create we can’t. Our midfield is terrible, yesterday the movement was non existent. They can’t pass it about so we can’t pin teams in as we loose it. Front two also culpable as hold up play is dead. The number of times freeman or mcgahey had no options to pass to was a joke and when they did we got one pass at best more before we lost it. All 4 in the middle need replacing, bar possibly Gardner and when we do sort that out we’ll control games and win more often at home. As for now we’ll be best sitting back and playing on break. 

[Careca9]

2 hours ago, JoeP said:

 

Absolutely.

 

But the fans' expectation isn't going to change whether it's Barnet away or Ebbsfleet at home, so why does the players'? They're mentally strong for the "tough" games, but can't bring that mentality to the games they're expected to win.  It's a type of mental weakness, but it's possibly not the pressure they can't cope with, more the ability to raise their game for lesser teams...

nothing to do with raising game. The weaker teams we have to take game to them and play and we haven’t got the players for that in midfield so we look shite. When oppo has all the ball and we play on break it suits us much better. 

[oafc1955]

4 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

No, a top 2/3 budget dictates that the bedding in period is shorter though, especially when you appoint someone with vast experience.

Even when the top 2/3 budget has already been spent? Mellon himself hasn’t spent any of this budget and thanks to Unsworth & Thompson, with the exception of 3 or 4 players, the money spent has in no way been worthy of that budget!

[oafc1955]

11 minutes ago, Careca9 said:

 As for now we’ll be best sitting back and playing on break. 

Which is basically the tactics adopted by Unsworth but that didn’t go to well did it?

[JoeP]

1 minute ago, Careca9 said:

nothing to do with raising game. The weaker teams we have to take game to them and play and we haven’t got the players for that in midfield so we look shite. When oppo has all the ball and we play on break it suits us much better. 

 

I don't think there's been much change in approach in games, regardless of who we've playing.  Ebbsfleet and Fylde have had plenty of the ball, like say Barnet did.  And why would we change approach?  If we can wait to peak against Barnet, why wouldn't it work against Ebbsfleet?  Neither them or Fylde parked the bus.  They beat us and beat us well by going for the jugular.