Dave_Og Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 18 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Yep, I've thought this for years. If Bobby Charlton at 25 was playing now, I remain convinced he would play no higher than League One... Or perhaps he'd be better trained, fitter and would still be the best of his generation. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Or perhaps he'd be better trained, fitter and would still be the best of his generation. But these trendy GPS devices would mean he'd be less skilful... But seriously you are right Bobby Charlton had the ability to shoot off both feet using balls significantly heavier than what's used now so I'd imagine he'd be pretty amazing doing that today. Edited February 27 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 25 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Yep, I've thought this for years. If Bobby Charlton at 25 was playing now, I remain convinced he would play no higher than League One... They were as fit as they needed to be in the day….if they were playing today they would have to be far fitter and almost certainly would be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Charlton had skill and class oozing out of every pore. But I suppose people want to see your Nathan Sherons running around a bit nowadays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I'd imagine players in the 60s at the top level were trained to the best available standards at the time. Just like now. And there probably would have been people watching Charlton complaining about him saying he wasn't a patch on Dixie Dean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, nzlatic said: I'd imagine players in the 60s at the top level were trained to the best available standards at the time. Just like now. And there probably would have been people watching Charlton complaining about him saying he wasn't a patch on Dixie Dean. If you have ever read inverting the pyramid a very good book for the thinking football fan it tells how Brazils 1970s team prepared meticulously for playing in the heat and the altitude of Mexico including diet fitness training . plus sessions with NASA to help them cope with the conditions. This was funded by the government at the time who used the success of the national football team as national propaganda. It's a side that is forever remembered for its flamboyant style but the preparations were done with some of the most advanced Sports science of the time. I was told the story whilst on a tour of Goodison Park once that Dixie Dean would rock up to the match on Saturday on his motorbike park up at the pub had a pint and a smoke before nipping over the road to Goodison to usually score. Overtime things have changed and while not all change has been good geberally they have mainly been to the advancement of football. Edited February 27 by GlossopLatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Branston Pickle Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 57 minutes ago, disjointed said: Charlton had skill and class oozing out of every pore. But I suppose people want to see your Nathan Sherons running around a bit nowadays. There's players at the top level who can still do what Charlton did to a higher standard. Comparing him to an average 5th division midfielder is a bit unfair Edited February 27 by Guy Branston Pickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Branston Pickle Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, spanishfly said: Interesting observation, Guy. There's no doubt that the game is much faster nowadays and players are fitter and physically stronger. Standard wise, though, I definitely saw more individual skill back in the day. I doubt I`ll ever see the likes of Groves, Stainrod, Valentine, McVitie, Shaw etc. in a Latics shirt again to be honest. Agree it's like comparing apples and pears really though. If those players could time travel forward, how would they look now? We'll never know but of one thing I`m pretty certain, nobody today would beat David Shaw for pace from a standing start over 20 yards. Perhaps only Warhurst and Barrett may have stood a fighting chance in my history of watching us. Oh and to have Simon Stainrod and his silky skills up front now, just superb to watch. Anyway, I`m being positive and looking forward to a victory tonight, only wish I could be there to see us perform away from home. I'm maybe being a bit harsh, but I've grown up watching football from the 90s onwards where the standard, pace, fitness and pitches have been much better. When you've not grown up watching football pre-90s it's quite grating how slow and poor quality it feels in comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Lots of criticism of football in the past .....they played on mudbaths , could be hacked to bits by centre halfs and did not treat every tackle as an opportunity for Oscar winning play acting. If they played today , they would have the same fitness ,diet and cosseting of todays players . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: But these trendy GPS devices would mean he'd be less skilful... But seriously you are right Bobby Charlton had the ability to shoot off both feet using balls significantly heavier than what's used now so I'd imagine he'd be pretty amazing doing that today. It's a myth players weren't fit in the 1950s when most were in the national services. The current Latics players wouldn't last a day under such regimentation. Read Stanley Matthews autobiography on his training routine..and he played till he was 50yo. Probably the fittest fastest I've seen at Latics was David Shaw in the 1970s never seen anyone one as quick since and this lot are sloths in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, BP1960 said: It's a myth players weren't fit in the 1950s when most were in the national services. The current Latics players wouldn't last a day under such regimentation. Read Stanley Matthews autobiography on his training routine..and he played till he was 50yo. Probably the fittest fastest I've seen at Latics was David Shaw in the 1970s never seen anyone one as quick since and this lot are sloths in comparison. Yes . David Shaw very quick. However Paul Warhusrt was in another league of quick. Back in the day we called him turbo. Edited February 27 by 100milesaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, 100milesaway said: Yes NO. David Shaw very quick. However Paul Warhusrt was in another league of quick. Back in the day we called him turbo. Warhurst just floated across the grass…never seen anyone move quite like him but apparently Marshall was quicker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 38 minutes ago, BP1960 said: It's a myth players weren't fit in the 1950s when most were in the national services. The current Latics players wouldn't last a day under such regimentation. Read Stanley Matthews autobiography on his training routine..and he played till he was 50yo. Probably the fittest fastest I've seen at Latics was David Shaw in the 1970s never seen anyone one as quick since and this lot are sloths in comparison. Players have got far fitter and faster since I started in the 90s so they would be way quicker and faster than they were from the 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 16 hours ago, Guy Branston Pickle said: I occasionally watch The Big Match Revisited and the standard is almost always appalling, and now I'm beginning to understand why... I saw it live back then, it was far more exciting than nowadays. I guess you never saw Alan Groves play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 30 minutes ago, 100milesaway said: Yes NO. David Shaw very quick. However Paul Warhusrt was in another league of quick. Back in the day we called him turbo. Having seen both I'd put my money on David Shaw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Branston Pickle Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 18 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I saw it live back then, it was far more exciting than nowadays. I guess you never saw Alan Groves play? That's pure nostalgia though, isn't it? Everyone thinks everything was better when they were younger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishfly Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Having seen both I'd put my money on David Shaw. For me, David Shaw over 20 or 30 yards - nobody would touch him. He had the speed of a startled gazelle from a standing start. Now, over 50/60 yards and above, I`d say Warhurst would be quicker. I`m surprised to hear that Marshall used to be the quickest but I`ll take people's word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: Old football was infact shit if you want to see how bad football was back then see above a fixture between 2 of the top teams in the country Liverpool and Manchester United. The defending from Manchester United was something I'd expect to see from a group Under 9s on the pitch at Half time. So too is the miss from Kenny Dalglish one of the most technically accomplished players of his generation. I assume you mean how bad football could be. Players are human and so can make mistakes. Let's face it, how that guy called Pele could have missed with his shot from inside his own half in the 1970 World Cup beggars belief, what was wrong with him? Clearly Beckham was a far better player . As for George Best, I doubt he would have made the current Latics squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishfly Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said: That's pure nostalgia though, isn't it? Everyone thinks everything was better when they were younger It is partly nostalgia Guy but to watch Alan Groves was an absolute privilege. He really was that skillful. It would be hard to exaggerate just how good he was actually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 10 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said: That's pure nostalgia though, isn't it? Everyone thinks everything was better when they were younger Not so, hated frozen outside toilets, carrying sacks of coal and pea soup fog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 hours ago, spanishfly said: Interesting observation, Guy. There's no doubt that the game is much faster nowadays and players are fitter and physically stronger. Standard wise, though, I definitely saw more individual skill back in the day. I doubt I`ll ever see the likes of Groves, Stainrod, Valentine, McVitie, Shaw etc. in a Latics shirt again to be honest. Agree it's like comparing apples and pears really though. If those players could time travel forward, how would they look now? We'll never know but of one thing I`m pretty certain, nobody today would beat David Shaw for pace from a standing start over 20 yards. Perhaps only Warhurst and Barrett may have stood a fighting chance in my history of watching us. Oh and to have Simon Stainrod and his silky skills up front now, just superb to watch. Anyway, I`m being positive and looking forward to a victory tonight, only wish I could be there to see us perform away from home. They had time to control and play back then. Now if a player does a step over and looses the ball they get roasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Pidge said: They had time to control and play back then. Now if a player does a step over and looses the ball they get roasted. I don't think Norman Hunter or Billy Bremner gave anyone an inch of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 24 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: I assume you mean how bad football could be. Players are human and so can make mistakes. Let's face it, how that guy called Pele could have missed with his shot from inside his own half in the 1970 World Cup beggars belief, what was wrong with him? Clearly Beckham was a far better player . As for George Best, I doubt he would have made the current Latics squad. I once scored for OASIS vs the Supporters Club from inside my own half. So I was better than Pele. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Even by OWTB standards this is a bizarre discussion. Clearly if a top 50s/60s player played now in the style of how football was then he'd get absolutely mullered. He wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 31 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I don't think Norman Hunter or Billy Bremner gave anyone an inch of space. But when you weren’t playing Leeds— Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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