Bristolatic Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Further down Mr McHale's twitography he says that Ellis Plummer is on of the best he's ever played with... Shows how much he knows about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bristolatic said: Shows how much he knows about football. Or possibly indicates his level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Further down Mr McHale's twitography he says that Ellis Plummer is on of the best he's ever played with... Sad thing is, Ellis Plummer would most probably be an upgrade on some of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: Come on, you can work that out surely? Showing like a broken link on mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, latics22 said: What is that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 So the trust were allotted more shares to keep their holding at 3%. This filing was made today...by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: So the trust were allotted more shares to keep their holding at 3%. This filing was made today...by who? Presumably the club? It looks like a debt write off converted to shares.... which has to be related to the FLG’s claim to have bought some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: So the trust were allotted more shares to keep their holding at 3%. This filing was made today...by who? What does this boil down to in your opinion Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, BP1960 said: What does this boil down to in your opinion Dave? Anyone's guess to be honest. It clearly isn't about raising new money. If it relates to the shares that FLG say they are buying then the filing has been made very late. It's a significant slug of shares so the best hope of finding out who owns them would be either the trust gaining a view of the share register or through the required submission of a Persons with Significant Control return which must disclose the identity of anyone holding more than 25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Stu hayes @StuBobs1976 4h4 hours ago More @webdarren what's this 1 reply0 retweets2 likes Reply 1 Retweet Like 2 Direct message webdarren @webdarren FollowingFollowing @webdarren More Replying to @StuBobs1976 When AL has put money into the club, he’s done it via a “Directors Loan” and this is basically converting that into shares in the club and frees it of that burden. It is a decent show of commitment to the club in my opinion. 7:11 PM - 12 Nov 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, LaticMark said: Stu hayes @StuBobs1976 4h4 hours ago More @webdarren what's this 1 reply0 retweets2 likes Reply 1 Retweet Like 2 Direct message webdarren @webdarren FollowingFollowing @webdarren More Replying to @StuBobs1976 When AL has put money into the club, he’s done it via a “Directors Loan” and this is basically converting that into shares in the club and frees it of that burden. It is a decent show of commitment to the club in my opinion. 7:11 PM - 12 Nov 2019 I'm confused, thought he was putting his own money into the club..now it's a 'Directors Loan'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2.6 Cash Injections – Significant cash injections from companies or benefactors must be evidenced by a bank receipt or statement to show funds have been credited to the Club’s bank account. Before being included in the Club’s SCMP Submission, a signed Letter of Guarantee (in accordance with Appendix D) must also be received by The League to confirm that there is no interest linked to the donation or any requirement for future repayment of the injection by the Club. 2.7 Equity Injections – Only include non-redeemable equity investments received in the relevant period. The conversion of debt to equity does not constitute a form of revenue as no cash injection is provided to the Club to finance wages in the future. Further, any linked transactions whereby loans are repaid followed by a cash injection in exchange for equity, will not be allowed. All equity cash injections must be evidenced by a bank receipt or statement to show funds have been credited to the Club’s bank account. Before being included in the Club’s SCMP Submission, a copy of the signed Companies House forms confirming the issue of new share capital must also be received by The League. https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I'm confused, thought he was putting his own money into the club..now it's a 'Directors Loan'? It is his money. He’s just converted a loan - meaning he might want it back one day. Into shares - meaning he has given the club the money and the club doesn’t owe him the loan anymore. That’s my cod accountancy take anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 hours ago, League one forever said: It is his money. He’s just converted a loan - meaning he might want it back one day. Into shares - meaning he has given the club the money and the club doesn’t owe him the loan anymore. That’s my cod accountancy take anyway. If that's the case that's good. The alternative view is that by doing so he has significantly watered down the %age of shares that the FLG are buying represents. Whatever they are. That seems quite a plausible motive to me. The usual reason for converting loans to equity , and not an unreasonable one, is to give the lender a greater equity stake and therefore some value for the loans and the possibility of recovering that value, or some of it, in the event of the sale of the business or its return to health and ability to pay dividends. If he owned 97% before and still owned 97% after the share issue there'd be nothing gained and the loans may just as well have been written off. So my poorly informed conclusion would be that he has effectively written off debt, which is good, but there are no clues as to how much debt and whether there remains any outstanding. In the meantime the shares which FLG are buying are reduced, probably significantly so, in terms of the share of the company they represent. That may mean they fall below an important percentage level but I don't know that. All conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 7 hours ago, LaticMark said: Stu hayes @StuBobs1976 4h4 hours ago More @webdarren what's this 1 reply0 retweets2 likes Reply 1 Retweet Like 2 Direct message webdarren @webdarren FollowingFollowing @webdarren More Replying to @StuBobs1976 When AL has put money into the club, he’s done it via a “Directors Loan” and this is basically converting that into shares in the club and frees it of that burden. It is a decent show of commitment to the club in my opinion. 7:11 PM - 12 Nov 2019 You can invest money into a business via directors loans and it not effect the shareholding in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: You can invest money into a business via directors loans and it not effect the shareholding in the business. You can't really call a loan an investment when the business is definitively loss making and the prospect of a return on the loan is minimal. Most loans carry interest rates, I can't imagine these did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave_Og said: If that's the case that's good. The alternative view is that by doing so he has significantly watered down the %age of shares that the FLG are buying represents. Whatever they are. That seems quite a plausible motive to me. The usual reason for converting loans to equity , and not an unreasonable one, is to give the lender a greater equity stake and therefore some value for the loans and the possibility of recovering that value, or some of it, in the event of the sale of the business or its return to health and ability to pay dividends. If he owned 97% before and still owned 97% after the share issue there'd be nothing gained and the loans may just as well have been written off. So my poorly informed conclusion would be that he has effectively written off debt, which is good, but there are no clues as to how much debt and whether there remains any outstanding. In the meantime the shares which FLG are buying are reduced, probably significantly so, in terms of the share of the company they represent. That may mean they fall below an important percentage level but I don't know that. All conjecture. Yep, if that’s the case.... it’s a counter-FLG motivated move. Maybe he wouldn’t have written off loans had the FLG not announced they were buying shares from somewhere (most likely the Necarcu debenture as far as I’m concerned). Either way, if true, it’s only a good thing. Kieran McGuire says it’s only £20k though. Darren says it’s more and he’s reported back to the trust. Would be good to hear from the Trust sooner rather than later on the topic. This, unlike PTB, is what they are there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 55 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: Yep, if that’s the case.... it’s a counter-FLG motivated move. Maybe he wouldn’t have written off loans had the FLG not announced they were buying shares from somewhere (most likely the Necarcu debenture as far as I’m concerned). Either way, if true, it’s only a good thing. Kieran McGuire says it’s only £20k though. Darren says it’s more and he’s reported back to the trust. Would be good to hear from the Trust sooner rather than later on the topic. This, unlike PTB, is what they are there for. Maguire has made a rather rudimentary mistake there. Interesting. Anyhow, if this is indeed a director loan converted to shares we have to admit that can only be a good thing for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Maguire has made a rather rudimentary mistake there. Interesting. Anyhow, if this is indeed a director loan converted to shares we have to admit that can only be a good thing for the club. Has he? 20,000 shares valued at £1 each. Yes. Any debt write off is good. The motive for it seems personally motivated and not for the benevolence of the club though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I think this is very obviously an attempt to reduce the voting rights of any shares purchased by the FLG. Call it a debt write off if you want, but the fact the Trust has been given shares which keep their share of the total at 3% would tend to argue against it being a simple debt write off. I suspect the majority share holder has forced a share issue and paid for them at £1 per share and as a thank you to the trust for their support, has given them 597 more B shares. End result = the FLG now own a very nominal number of shares. Clever? Probably, but unlikely to benefit the club much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 There's no need to create new shares to write off Directors loans is there? It's usually a sweetener where the club is owned by multiple people including shareholding Directors, who agree not to get their cash back in return for owning a larger % of the total*. It's shenanigans when it's the 97%ish owner massively diluting the shares to pay off an immaterial amount of debt. * As The Rangers have done a couple of times recently to keep the lights on** ** Sorry Ackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 11 hours ago, League one forever said: It is his money. He’s just converted a loan - meaning he might want it back one day. Into shares - meaning he has given the club the money and the club doesn’t owe him the loan anymore. That’s my cod accountancy take anyway. He might want it back one day sounds ominous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, BP1960 said: He might want it back one day sounds ominous. That’s when it was a loan. From that perspective this is a better position for the club to be in. Whether there are other loans is the pertinent question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: That’s when it was a loan. From that perspective this is a better position for the club to be in. Whether there are other loans is the pertinent question We thought the club was in a good position when AL arrived. Do you mean it's better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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