Takeover / New Investment - What Rumours Have You Heard?

[tGWB]

29 minutes ago, underdog said:

you read my mind?.....winning lottery number please

 

Haha, you have been reading the same shareholder rights act as myself.

 

Yes we are on it.

 

Cheers

 

Underdog

 

It wouldn't be an unreasonable request

 

Those 3% shares in the club the Trust have and the seat around the board table the Trust negotiated because of those shares, could prove invaluable.

 

Got a feeling the next few months are going to be like a themed park ride for our supporters with lots of twists and turns and a few  highs and lows

 

Strap yourself in and thanks to you and your colleagues for sticking in there

 

[underdog]

1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

Underdog

 

It wouldn't be an unreasonable request

 

Those 3% shares in the club the Trust have and the seat around the board table the Trust negotiated because of those shares, could prove invaluable.

 

Got a feeling the next few months are going to be like a themed park ride for our supporters with lots of twists and turns and a few  highs and lows

 

Strap yourself in and thanks to you and your colleagues for sticking in there

 

Yep I agree

 

Part of the FSA health check on the Trust was for us to be put in contact with other supporters Trust to share good practice and not so good experiences.

 

I spoke to the the director of CAST (Charlton Athletic supporters Trust). They have had not so good experiences with their owner. They were were fascinated by our 3% shareholding and did comment at first that is was  "well its only 3%". I then expanded that it does include more rights like:

 

Our right to nominate a representative to the board and only we can decide who the person is and right to remove the person.

Equal parity voting on board level decisions 

To be consulted if the Club board decide on the  "discontinuance of or disposal of the principal business of the company as a professional football club without the consent of the holders of the category B ordinary shares".   Trust is cat B shareholder.

 

The entitlement above is a massive kudos for those who were around at the time of the Trust conception. Who sat down and wrote/negotiated those rights with the club, the owners and got it legal...so to speak. They laid the foundations of the rights the Trust has now.

 

Unsure if any come on this board but it a thanks from me......Yes Barry that does include you as you were a founding member and reported previously, do monitor this board. I think OAFCMetty? who posts on here as well..so thanks Metty.

 

I will not be logging in on here as often as I used to. Please, if you or anyone has any questions, log them directly on the Trust webpage so they can be picked up by the team

 

Thanks

 

 

[leeslover]

One other stab at the Sharegate question: Lemmy took money for shares from someone looking at joining the board, said person changed their mind and offered them to the FLG

[al_bro]

12 minutes ago, underdog said:

Yep I agree

 

Part of the FSA health check on the Trust was for us to be put in contact with other supporters Trust to share good practice and not so good experiences.

 

I spoke to the the director of CAST (Charlton Athletic supporters Trust). They have had not so good experiences with their owner. They were were fascinated by our 3% shareholding and did comment at first that is was  "well its only 3%". I then expanded that it does include more rights like:

 

Our right to nominate a representative to the board and only we can decide who the person is and right to remove the person.

Equal parity voting on board level decisions 

To be consulted if the Club board decide on the  "discontinuance of or disposal of the principal business of the company as a professional football club without the consent of the holders of the category B ordinary shares".   Trust is cat B shareholder.

 

The entitlement above is a massive kudos for those who were around at the time of the Trust conception. Who sat down and wrote/negotiated those rights with the club, the owners and got it legal...so to speak. They laid the foundations of the rights the Trust has now.

 

Unsure if any come on this board but it a thanks from me......Yes Barry that does include you as you were a founding member and reported previously, do monitor this board. I think OAFCMetty? who posts on here as well..so thanks Metty.

 

I will not be logging in on here as often as I used to. Please, if you or anyone has any questions, log them directly on the Trust webpage so they can be picked up by the team

 

Thanks

 

 

TTA were quite open then, and were keen for the Trust to be on the board. I doubt  AL would be as keen to have done that.

[peanuts]

9 hours ago, tGWB said:

You might find this interesting  

 

Looking through information that is available in the public domain

 

• the FLG announced some weeks ago that they had been 'approached by a third party with an offer to sell a percentage of shares in the football club' and that terms of the purchase had been agreed. The purchase was with their solicitors to take the matter forward to completion
• there has been no official announcement / statement from AL or the football club to rebuff the statement by the FLG
• Companies House - our Annual Return, made up to 9th December 2015 shows a statement regarding the 'Full Statement of Shareholders' and specifically lists only 2 shareholders being Oldham Athletic Supporters Foundation Trust having 3 x B Ordinary shares and Simon Corney having 97 x A Ordinary Shares

• Companies House - a 'statement of capital following an allotment of shares' on the 24th January 2018, lists only the type of shares in the club NOT who owns them, simply confirming there are 97 x A Ordinary shares and 3 x B Ordinary shares

• d3d4dfootball.com - Chris Stringer (Latics supporter) writes in his article 'Lemsagam Buys the Latics' that 'it is understood that Lemsagam has taken on all of Corney's shares with the other 3% held by the Trust.

 

My current thoughts on this are :

 

• With AL or the football club not immediately calling out the FLG regarding their claim of being in the process of purchasing a number A Ordinary shares, the club knows there are some shares currently NOT owned by either AL or Trust Oldham
• the only reason on the 24th January 2018 when AL became Director of the club and the allotment of shares statement only showed actual the number of shares in the club and NOT the owners of those shares is simply down to AL not owning the 97%. There is no way a new owner wouldn't declare their authority and 'ownership' if they had total control, particularly a football club owner
• my understanding is that there would be financial penalties if a business knowingly declared incorrect shareholder listings to Companies House. Hence the club has only declared the number and type of shares

 

So in short, I conclude there are some A Ordinary shares in our club that are not currently owned by either AL or the Trust.

 

The only remaining question for me is, how many are there

 

 

 

the following recolections may throw some light on a possible source ?  

 

back in 1991 whilst traveling to swindon away was on the coach with an elderly latics fan who regaled us all with tales of the good & bad old days of the 1960s one thing he told us that in the season we applied for re election the club was in a parlous financial state the chairman turned to this gentleman and several of his latics supporting associates for a loan to help the club in return they were all offered vip ( comp tickets corporate pre and post match access etc) treatment bye the club untill said moneys were refunded  which to that point had not happen and he had rather enjoyed the bonus of the last couple of seasons . i next saw the same gentleman when he traveled to Wolves away for our FA cup tie in 2007  i asked was he still receiving the vip treatment and he stated that chris moore had converted the remaining entitlement into a shareholding for those that still survived as a way of respecting that they had not tried to reclaim the loans and he would pass them on to his sons in his will . could the shares being offered be some of these shares ? the gentleman concerned was adamant that the shares had been transfered to the new club in 2004 ?

[Dave_Og]

28 minutes ago, peanuts said:

the following recolections may throw some light on a possible source ?  

 

back in 1991 whilst traveling to swindon away was on the coach with an elderly latics fan who regaled us all with tales of the good & bad old days of the 1960s one thing he told us that in the season we applied for re election the club was in a parlous financial state the chairman turned to this gentleman and several of his latics supporting associates for a loan to help the club in return they were all offered vip ( comp tickets corporate pre and post match access etc) treatment bye the club untill said moneys were refunded  which to that point had not happen and he had rather enjoyed the bonus of the last couple of seasons . i next saw the same gentleman when he traveled to Wolves away for our FA cup tie in 2007  i asked was he still receiving the vip treatment and he stated that chris moore had converted the remaining entitlement into a shareholding for those that still survived as a way of respecting that they had not tried to reclaim the loans and he would pass them on to his sons in his will . could the shares being offered be some of these shares ? the gentleman concerned was adamant that the shares had been transfered to the new club in 2004 ?

I'm struggling a bit with the words Chris Moore and respect appearing in the same sentence. 

[tGWB]

1 hour ago, peanuts said:

the following recolections may throw some light on a possible source ?  

 

back in 1991 whilst traveling to swindon away was on the coach with an elderly latics fan who regaled us all with tales of the good & bad old days of the 1960s one thing he told us that in the season we applied for re election the club was in a parlous financial state the chairman turned to this gentleman and several of his latics supporting associates for a loan to help the club in return they were all offered vip ( comp tickets corporate pre and post match access etc) treatment bye the club untill said moneys were refunded  which to that point had not happen and he had rather enjoyed the bonus of the last couple of seasons . i next saw the same gentleman when he traveled to Wolves away for our FA cup tie in 2007  i asked was he still receiving the vip treatment and he stated that chris moore had converted the remaining entitlement into a shareholding for those that still survived as a way of respecting that they had not tried to reclaim the loans and he would pass them on to his sons in his will . could the shares being offered be some of these shares ? the gentleman concerned was adamant that the shares had been transfered to the new club in 2004 ?

Am sure I read, maybe on OWTB that a number of fans who had shares in the club pre 2004 didnt have their shares moved over under the new regime of Blitz, Corney and Gazal..

It would be nice if the old fellas had done though 

[Dave_Og]

13 minutes ago, tGWB said:

Am sure I read, maybe on OWTB that a number of fans who had shares in the club pre 2004 didnt have their shares moved over under the new regime of Blitz, Corney and Gazal..

It would be nice if the old fellas had done though 

 

Shares in OAFC pre-administration were in a different company and became worthless.  Even If Moore had made that gesture the shares aren't relevant now.

[tGWB]

6 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Shares in OAFC pre-administration were in a different company and became worthless.  Even If Moore had made that gesture the shares aren't relevant now.

Thought so 

All roads lead to Corney then on these shares the FLG are buying 

[ghostofcecere]

38 minutes ago, tGWB said:

Am sure I read, maybe on OWTB that a number of fans who had shares in the club pre 2004 didnt have their shares moved over under the new regime of Blitz, Corney and Gazal..

It would be nice if the old fellas had done though 

My family was one, we no longer have shares.

[tGWB]

18 minutes ago, ghostofcecere said:

My family was one, we no longer have shares.

Sorry to hear that

 

[Monty Burns]

l'm sayin, based on conplete nothing, that Simon Corney somehow still own us and he is tryin to sell some share to the FLG.

[StoodinaBoshell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:36 PM, StoodinaBoshell said:

The CS01 filed in February this year (upto the 9th December) suggests that Simon Corney holds no shares (having transferred his). Al owns 194 A shares and the trust 6 B shares.

 

Cannot be Corney, unless I) AL has sold some shares back to him since the 9th December (seems very unlikely) II) The CS01 has been misfiled. 

 

I'm very interested to know where these FLG shares are coming from given the CS01 previously filed.

[tGWB]

23 hours ago, tGWB said:

The Trust are a shareholder.

 

The club should maintain and update a shareholder register.

 

As a shareholder, the Trust can request to view the register to see who other shareholders are 

 

24 minutes ago, StoodinaBoshell said:

 

Cannot be Cornet, unless I) AL has sold some shares back to him since the 9th December (seems very unlikely) II) The CS01 has been misfiled. 

 

I'm very interested to know where these FLG shares are coming from given the CS01 previously filed.

 

 

Apologies for copying my own post

 

For me, this is the only way we will find out if the FLG have access to purchase any legitimate shares in our club, unless of course if the FLG announce beforehand

 

 

 

[Hands on]

Two thoughts:

1.  The shares are not worthless whilst we remain a member of the EFL.

2.  Corney might have just passed the legal ownership of the 97% to AL when he, Corney, might not have been the beneficial owner of all of the 97% because he had used some as security for a loan so that AL did not get beneficial ownership of all of the 97%.

 

Somebody knows!

[underdog]

16 minutes ago, Hands on said:

Two thoughts:

1.  The shares are not worthless whilst we remain a member of the EFL.

2.  Corney might have just passed the legal ownership of the 97% to AL when he, Corney, might not have been the beneficial owner of all of the 97% because he had used some as security for a loan so that AL did not get beneficial ownership of all of the 97%.

 

Somebody knows!

 I might be able to help with point 2.

 

Below is a Trust link to the takeover at the time, its a bit lengthy. The debenture and shares are mention point 5

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/update-fans-investment/

 

Thanks

[tGWB]

24 minutes ago, underdog said:

 I might be able to help with point 2.

 

Below is a Trust link to the takeover at the time, its a bit lengthy. The debenture and shares are mention point 5

 

https://trustoldham.co.uk/update-fans-investment/

 

Thanks

 

Morning Underdog

 

So in short:

 

• Brassbank gave permission for the sale, as they had a new tenant for the stadium 
• Trust Oldham gave permission for the sale, as we finally had a new owner
• Necaru gave permission for the sale, but not necessarily had the debenture settled but an agreement to do so within a defined timescale

 

Over to you

[WLYOWD]

In point 5 the second paragraph after the bullet points, that begins "Even in the case of........."     A few fine lines must have been walked there!

[HarryBosch]

57 minutes ago, Hands on said:

 

2.  Corney might have just passed the legal ownership of the 97% to AL when he, Corney, might not have been the beneficial owner of all of the 97% because he had used some as security for a loan so that AL did not get beneficial ownership of all of the 97%.

 

 

It does all seem to have come out after the Necarcu loan was paid off. Which, as far as I'm aware, the club & Trust haven't confirmed who actually paid it off since being asked ...

[Inspiral_Carpet]

On 10/14/2019 at 11:52 AM, Inspiral_Carpet said:

Those are just standard paragraphs in a mortgage debenture covering what could be captured under the floating charge.  In this case, any shares of value owned by the borrower would be treated as security once the debt had been called in.  I very much doubt that this would include shares in OAFC.

 

I thought it was established a couple of weeks ago that Corney had paid off the Necarcu loan?  That will potentially have given him rights of subrogation against AL which is probably all part of the claim and counterclaim going on between them in the legal proceedings.

 

On 10/14/2019 at 1:31 PM, Inspiral_Carpet said:

Maybe @oafcmetty was just being mischievous with the comment a few pages back?  He tends to be fairly well connected though normally.

 

It would make a lot of sense to me for Corney to do this.  AL seemingly has him by the balls regarding the transfer of assets around the time of the sale and so to become a large creditor of the cash-strapped man who is suing you would be a very good bargaining tool.

 

Pure speculation of course and possibly it is an owtb fact.

 

On 10/14/2019 at 2:18 PM, oafcmetty said:

Apparently true.

So maybe the speculation isn’t far off based on what the Trust Notes (point 5) state.

 

If (still not proven) Corney paid off the Necarcu Mortgage Debenture, the shares held as Security would have gone to him under Rights of Contribution and Subrogation.  He can then do with them as he pleases and it seems they are going to the FLG.

 

That would shaft AL well and truly.

 

While potentially good news for us as fans, the worry for me goes back to who are the money men behind the FLG.  All arrows point towards the machinations of the previous ownership and maybe why the term “nepotism” was used at the Fan’s Forum.  Until we know for definite, I don’t know how anyone can say for certain that this is a good outcome.  I truly hope the FLG are our white nights though.

 

Like I say though, it’s all speculation at the juncture.

[tGWB]

4 hours ago, Inspiral_Carpet said:

So maybe the speculation isn’t far off based on what the Trust Notes (point 5) state.

 

If (still not proven) Corney paid off the Necarcu Mortgage Debenture, the shares held as Security would have gone to him under Rights of Contribution and Subrogation.  He can then do with them as he pleases and it seems they are going to the FLG.

 

That would shaft AL well and truly.

 

While potentially good news for us as fans, the worry for me goes back to who are the money men behind the FLG.  All arrows point towards the machinations of the previous ownership and maybe why the term “nepotism” was used at the Fan’s Forum.  Until we know for definite, I don’t know how anyone can say for certain that this is a good outcome.  I truly hope the FLG are our white nights though.

 

Like I say though, it’s all speculation at the juncture.

 

There is a lot going on isn't there

 

• the Club investigating the legal ownership of the North Stand
• the Club in dispute over match day services provided by the OEC in the North Stand
• the FLG intentions to buy the stadium, the land the stadium sits on and the car park
• the FLG announcing they're in the process of purchasing a number of A Shares in the Club
• the question of who are the mystery backers of the FLG
• the rumour of another HMRC winding up order

And then there's the small matter of the team sitting 20th in League Two, only 3 points above the trapdoor into non league football and a potential banana skin in the 1st round of the FA Cup away at Gateshead from the National League North

 

What could go wrong eh !!

 

[peanuts]

1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

There is a lot going on isn't there

 

• the Club investigating the legal ownership of the North Stand
• the Club in dispute over match day services provided by the OEC in the North Stand
• the FLG intentions to buy the stadium, the land the stadium sits on and the car park
• the FLG announcing they're in the process of purchasing a number of A Shares in the Club
• the question of who are the mystery backers of the FLG
• the rumour of another HMRC winding up order

And then there's the small matter of the team sitting 20th in League Two, only 3 points above the trapdoor into non league football and a potential banana skin in the 1st round of the FA Cup away at Gateshead from the National League North

 

What could go wrong eh !!

 

think the nepotism refers to scholes  robinson and sheridan junior all being at the club ?

[League one forever]

Weren’t we supposed to find out something important yesterday? 

[kowenicki]

25 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Weren’t we supposed to find out something important yesterday? 

The HMRC wind up petition? 
 

Well it was allegedly served on Tuesday. 7 days later it should appear in the Gazette.  Not sure if that’s 7 days or 7 working days. 
 

So yesterday, today or tomorrow? 

[unsworthlatic]

44 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

The HMRC wind up petition? 
 

Well it was allegedly served on Tuesday. 7 days later it should appear in the Gazette.  Not sure if that’s 7 days or 7 working days. 
 

So yesterday, today or tomorrow? 

 

That isn't correct. 

 

Previous ones that we've had:

 

18 April 2018 - Issued to Club on 07 March 2018

24 July 2018 - Issued to Club on 04 July 2018

 

As such, it just needs to be at least 7 days prior to the hearing date.