JoeP Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, oafc_lover said: Really? Got a belting squad of players and with only 8 games left he still doesnt seem to know what formation to use to get the best out of them. We’re probably as close as ever to relegation and until Byrne came on and sparked something we looked to be lacking any fight to turn things around. Not saying get rid but he certainly doesn’t appear to fully know what he’s doing, despite a few good performances in his honeymoon period. The stats would suggest the players we have who play in defence and goal are far from "belting"... I just think he's shown enough potential to be given a longer go. The idea of getting rid of him and taking a punt on another rookie over the summer just doesn't seem like a step forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, JoeP said: The stats would suggest the players we have who play in defence and goal are far from "belting"... I just think he's shown enough potential to be given a longer go. The idea of getting rid of him and taking a punt on another rookie over the summer just doesn't seem like a step forward. 53 minutes ago, oafc_lover said: Anyone reckon it’d be worth a wage having a proper defence coach? Looks like Paul Terry is doing it at the minute but wasn’t he a midfielder? If we get Doyle back in on a permanent and make some good additions including Moimbe who I rate, we’ll have a good side but need to cut out the errors and look more organised at the back. A proper defensive coach could be just the thing to get us more solid at the back and relieve a little pressure off the forwards to produce the goods. See my post above. Coach players properly and improve what, on paper should be a good defence. Placide has played at a higher level. Both Dummigan and Hunt were big prospects at Premier League clubs. Gerrard has played at a higher level. Bryan is one of City’s more promising defensive players. Sure he captained their Development side? Moimbe has played at a higher level. Not one of those players has hit their peak yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 hours ago, oafc_lover said: That’s true, we do need stability. However, I don’t want to be stable but shite. If there’s a better manager out there then I want him. How long is “stable”? Surely it has to be more than six months. Wellens is learning and has made mistakes - but he’s also made good decisions. I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t given an opportunity to show that he has learned from mistakes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 8 hours ago, nzlatic said: The 442 brigade wouldn’t have allowed it. Probably still won’t. If the 4-4-2 brigade are in favour of playing two wingers who cross the ball for two strikers - one big lad who’s a proper handful & one nimble quick lad who can poach you a goal from scraps - then I’ll be the fkin cheerleader. I’m bored shitless of modern narrow formations of diamonds, Christmas trees, and other inanimate objects that witness 5 midfielders in a team who practice passing sideways without penetration as an art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, LaticsPete said: How long is “stable”? Surely it has to be more than six months. Wellens is learning and has made mistakes - but he’s also made good decisions. I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t given an opportunity to show that he has learned from mistakes . I agree to an extent but if someone like Simon Grayson became available and we could have him, you wouldn’t want him? Obviously I know he won’t be available now but just using him as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, oafc_lover said: See my post above. Coach players properly and improve what, on paper should be a good defence. Placide has played at a higher level. Both Dummigan and Hunt were big prospects at Premier League clubs. Gerrard has played at a higher level. Bryan is one of City’s more promising defensive players. Sure he captained their Development side? Moimbe has played at a higher level. Not one of those players has hit their peak yet. Well, yeah, a defensive coach might be an idea. I'd still stick with Richie, though, I think... That said, the players you've mentioned there are playing at this level for a reason. A couple of them might be climbing the slope - Gerrard certainly isn't, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Seen some right nonsense about fane on here... He gave the ball away less than gardner yesterday...Won us numerous free kicks bursting forward, won more tackles than anyone else on the pitch and if you see the highlights is involved in some of those. Is he the best passer... No.... But when we were in decent form he was key. In a central 3 he won it and knew gardner or byrne would be within 5 yards wanting it. The issue at the moment is very few people want the ball... Pringle and Mcaleny drifted in taking all the space so there wasn't always a simple outlet for him.... Lot of talk about 442 but we have no wingers... Mclaughlin looks dreadful, the little lad (Belgian?) has fallen off face of earth and nepo is well out of favour despite being part of our best run this season. We need to play narrow with what we have... Start as we finished yesterday. As for wellens... Few people saying he never changes it but then give him no credit when he changes starting line up or shape mid game which wins us the match....cant win with some can he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, oafc_lover said: I agree to an extent but if someone like Simon Grayson became available and we could have him, you wouldn’t want him? Obviously I know he won’t be available now but just using him as an example. Hes not exactly saved Bradfird's promotion campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, opinions4u said: Hes not exactly saved Bradfird's promotion campaign. No but it’s not his group of players in his defence. His record at this level is undenyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, oafc_lover said: No but it’s not his group of players in his defence. His record at this level is undenyable. Just out of interest... How many of our squad do we think are wellens' choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fruitygoo said: Seen some right nonsense about fane on here... He gave the ball away less than gardner yesterday...Won us numerous free kicks bursting forward, won more tackles than anyone else on the pitch and if you see the highlights is involved in some of those. Is he the best passer... No.... But when we were in decent form he was key. In a central 3 he won it and knew gardner or byrne would be within 5 yards wanting it. The issue at the moment is very few people want the ball... Pringle and Mcaleny drifted in taking all the space so there wasn't always a simple outlet for him.... Lot of talk about 442 but we have no wingers... Mclaughlin looks dreadful, the little lad (Belgian?) has fallen off face of earth and nepo is well out of favour despite being part of our best run this season. We need to play narrow with what we have... Start as we finished yesterday. As for wellens... Few people saying he never changes it but then give him no credit when he changes starting line up or shape mid game which wins us the match....cant win with some can he Does anyone actually get excited when he bursts forward ? He did it yesterday was essentially 1 on 1 and I never felt he would score. When he runs forward your waiting for him to loose it and fall over which he does most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, LightDN123 said: Does anyone actually get excited when he bursts forward ? He did it yesterday was essentially 1 on 1 and I never felt he would score. When he runs forward your waiting for him to loose it and fall over which he does most of the time. I much prefer bryan or Edmundson hoofing it to doyle... In all seriousness... Im talking about his deeper bursts that usually ease the pressure ans get us to the half way line. At times we're so slow to get forward allowing teams to get shape back and men behind the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Fruitygoo said: Just out of interest... How many of our squad do we think are wellens' choice? Well we know Byrne. He stated he was desperate to being Bryan and Doyle back which he did. He’s chose to play Moimbe and rightly so. McEleney I imagine was all him. Probably more than is made out at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said: If the 4-4-2 brigade are in favour of playing two wingers who cross the ball for two strikers - one big lad who’s a proper handful & one nimble quick lad who can poach you a goal from scraps - then I’ll be the fkin cheerleader. I’m bored shitless of modern narrow formations of diamonds, Christmas trees, and other inanimate objects that witness 5 midfielders in a team who practice passing sideways without penetration as an art form. I’d love that too. I enjoy watching proper wingers, turning players inside out then delivering a cross in between defence and keeper. I first started watching when it was Holden and Adams and had a season ticket in the lookers watching Eyresy. But how many of those sort of players are about these days? Especially in league 1. My post was in reference to those who want to blindly stick to 442 despite not having the wingers you talk about or 2 central midfielders capable of working in a pair to be as effective as Henry and Milligan at defending and attacking. Theres no reason 4231 or something similar can’t give us attacking, fast moving, penetrative football. It’s not the formation that does that, it’s the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Fane for all his undeniable faults does, along with perhaps Gardner sometimes, at least run forward with the ball when we are under the cosh thus relieving pressure. We'd all like a "Bryan Robson" or "Ken Knighton" type running the ball out with something tangible at the end of it but I'm afraid all we've got is Ousmane Fane, who tries his bollocks off most games, which is something we've really needed this season. If we can get someone better all well and good but until then he's in every week for my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, nzlatic said: I’d love that too. I enjoy watching proper wingers, turning players inside out then delivering a cross in between defence and keeper. I first started watching when it was Holden and Adams and had a season ticket in the lookers watching Eyresy. But how many of those sort of players are about these days? Especially in league 1. It's no a question of how many such players are there but why are there so few? can only because it has been coached out of them. What kid doesn't want to run with the ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: It's no a question of how many such players are there but why are there so few? can only because it has been coached out of them. What kid doesn't want to run with the ball? I agree. We’ve been chasing continental models of France, Spain etc to try and emulate their success instead of focusing on the historical strengths of Home countries football and trying to develop a unique style rather than just be a poor imitation of others. There's no reason why you can’t have a balance of 3 in midfield but still proper wing play in my opinion - if the 2 supporting a lone striker are encouraged to get wide and take people on. Taking that continental midfield solidity and adding an ‘english’ aspect of pace and wing play and as my dad used to bang on about “get it to the bloody by line and cut it back” Edited April 3, 2018 by nzlatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, nzlatic said: I agree. We’ve been chasing continental models of France, Spain etc to try and emulate their success instead of focusing on the historical strengths of Home countries football and trying to develop a unique style rather than just be a poor imitation of others. There's no reason why you can’t have a balance of 3 in midfield but still proper wing play in my opinion - if the 2 supporting a lone striker are encouraged to get wide and take people on. Taking that continental midfield solidity and adding an ‘english’ aspect of pace and wing play and as my dad used to bang on about “get it to the bloody by line and cut it back” Im pretty sure they encourage players to run with the ball in France and spain I mean while hes Argentinien Lionel Messi has been playing in Spain since he was 14 he does a pretty good job of running with the ball and taking players on. If all they did in spain France and Germany was pass the ball sideways they would not have had the success that they have had and we wouldnt be trying to copy them. Also we have 2 players 2 wingers in our squad who can dribble and take people on in Odebayi and Mclaughlin neither have got going this season so they have not been in the team. The call to switch from 4-2-3-1 comes of the back of the 2nd half performance yesterday where the extra man allowed us to get a grip of the game in midfield and get Jack Byrne to play in his favoured role. 4 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: If the 4-4-2 brigade are in favour of playing two wingers who cross the ball for two strikers - one big lad who’s a proper handful & one nimble quick lad who can poach you a goal from scraps - then I’ll be the fkin cheerleader. I’m bored shitless of modern narrow formations of diamonds, Christmas trees, and other inanimate objects that witness 5 midfielders in a team who practice passing sideways without penetration as an art form. Did you not enjoy the 2nd half on saturday when we switched from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1? We dont just have to play 4-4-2 their is more than 1 way to skin a cat and the ones who just pass it sideways are the ones who dont make it work. Edited April 3, 2018 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 15 hours ago, oafc_lover said: Really? Got a belting squad of players and with only 8 games left he still doesnt seem to know what formation to use to get the best out of them. We’re probably as close as ever to relegation and until Byrne came on and sparked something we looked to be lacking any fight to turn things around. Not saying get rid but he certainly doesn’t appear to fully know what he’s doing, despite a few good performances in his honeymoon period. "Got a belting squad of players" - Really? Do all belting squad of players have 1 recognised, experienced CB of which can't get on a pitch at the moment. The squad hasn't had a defence all season. "We’re probably as close as ever to relegation" - Really? No, actually, you're right...as close as ever. Closer than when we were rock bottom last season and 8pts from getting out of the relegation zone. We are closer than that "he certainly doesn’t appear to fully know what he’s doing" - Really? I wonder why that might be? Oh...that's right...coz he's in his managerial nappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: "Got a belting squad of players" - Really? Do all belting squad of players have 1 recognised, experienced CB of which can't get on a pitch at the moment. The squad hasn't had a defence all season. "We’re probably as close as ever to relegation" - Really? No, actually, you're right...as close as ever. Closer than when we were rock bottom last season and 8pts from getting out of the relegation zone. We are closer than that "he certainly doesn’t appear to fully know what he’s doing" - Really? I wonder why that might be? Oh...that's right...coz he's in his managerial nappy. When you say ‘hasnt had a defence all season’ Who got rid of Clarke? Then only signed his 22 year old mate Kean in Jan? Whilst signing god knows how many midfielders? Why was Wilson a real steady Eddie under shez, but looks a liability under Wellens? Why, when we have one of the worst defensive records in the division, has this not been addressed effectively? Wellens takes the credit with how we play going forward at times, he has to take responsibility for the utter shambles we’ve been at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, League one forever said: When you say ‘hasnt had a defence all season’ Who got rid of Clarke? Then only signed his 22 year old mate Kean in Jan? Whilst signing god knows how many midfielders? Why was Wilson a real steady Eddie under shez, but looks a liability under Wellens? Why, when we have one of the worst defensive records in the division, has this not been addressed effectively? Wellens takes the credit with how we play going forward at times, he has to take responsibility for the utter shambles we’ve been at the back. Did you prefer last season or this season? I know which one I have enjoyed more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, League one forever said: When you say ‘hasnt had a defence all season’ Who got rid of Clarke? Then only signed his 22 year old mate Kean in Jan? Whilst signing god knows how many midfielders? Why was Wilson a real steady Eddie under shez, but looks a liability under Wellens? Why, when we have one of the worst defensive records in the division, has this not been addressed effectively? Wellens takes the credit with how we play going forward at times, he has to take responsibility for the utter shambles we’ve been at the back. Ok...I'm going to keep banging my head against this brick wall a little while long. You really do make no allowance for the fact he inherited that shambles. Were you at Rotherham at Shez's last game? 5-1 yes? Wilson was a steady Eddie under Shez coz he had Clarke alongside him. I wouldn't have got rid of Clarke (see my comment above about having a few gripes about Wellens myself) but most fans agreed with the decision (I'm sure the topic exists if you want to help your memory) and he genuinely thought he had the Matt Mills deal over the line. Clearly looked a case of one out, one in. Why has it not been addressed effectively? There are lots of perfectly reasonable reasons why a very very young manager has been trying to make the best of a shit situation...you know, like players not being paid properly and being under an embargo until the last minute in January and not being able to register players until the takeover happened. I bet it's well easy to convince players to come to OAFC in that situation, eh Edited April 4, 2018 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Did you prefer last season or this season? I know which one I have enjoyed more. Fair comment. Still wish we didn’t have to come from behind so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Clarke's legs had gone last season but he helped grind out results on a home "midden"; Wilson hasn't looked a first choice for a couple of seasons for me; the loss of/injury restrictions to Gerrard have hampered an already threadbare central defence. Plus Wellens, as has been well documented, has been doing the job alone whilst a rookie manager. The one thing that can propel clubs of our type forwards is sticking with a manager for a decent amount of time and not making knee jerk sackings after a few bad results. For me whatever division we are in next season I'd be happy with our current manager in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Ok...I'm going to keep banging my head against this brick wall a little while long. You really do make no allowance for the fact he inherited that shambles. Were you at Rotherham at Shez's last game? 5-1 yes? Wilson was a steady Eddie under Shez coz he had Clarke alongside him. I wouldn't have got rid of Clarke (see my comment above about having a few gripes about Wellens myself) but he genuinely thought he had the Matt Mills deal over the line. Clearly looked a case of one out, one in. Why has it not been addressed effectively? There are lots of perfectly reasonable reasons why a very very young manager has been trying to make the best of a shit situation...you know, like players not being paid properly and being under an embargo until the last minute in January and not being able to register players until the takeover happened. I bet it's well easy to convince players to come to OAFC in that situation, eh Why are you banging your head against a brick wall for a little while longer? Strange comment. We disagree. That’s all. Funny how the embargo didnt didn’t stop us ‘signing’ 5 midfielders in Jan. Priorities? Mills would have been excellent, but why put all your eggs in one basket? A bit naive- which is allowed- as long as he learns. I appreciate he’s young, and any rookie manger will make mistakes, but we are allowed to highlight those mistakes and look at wether he’s getting the best out of the squad- without it being a witch hunt. I hope he keeps us up, and as an earlier poster said he would done then to at least have another crack next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.