underdog Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, Fruitygoo said: I have a lot of respect for you guys and i understand it cant be easy but the more this happens the more i wonder what the point is in that stake in the club and the purpose of the trust. Where you aware or can you confirm AL is putting in 200k per month? Why is the trust always reactive? Why do you not know about big changes or club statements until after they have occurred? How many times do you accept 'it wont happen again' before there is a challange back? Why is the club in need of 200k a month.?I dont want to know specific loans or financial details.. Just confirmation that you know we don't have a choice but to pump money in at that rate. Who is responsibile for failure in the due dilligence? Lack of info passed to AL or lack of understanding from AL Again, appreciate your all volunteers and this isnt aimed at individuals Hello Fruitygoo All valid questions....hand on heart I personally don't have all the answers and nor do I have the entitlement to know those answers (some yes i should have a basic knowledge of agreed) and that might sound weird. The only Trust person who has a legal obligation of owning the business and the club is a business, is the Trust representative that should serve on the board of OAFC. They have to pass Fit and proper person and due process to be accepted and registered on the board of OAFC. They are then legally responsible for the club as a business and have entitlement to know stuff like finances (expenditure, overheads, profit, losses, debts etc...). The other Trust directors are there to support the rep and to ensure they are getting that entitlement by any means we can. Through great foundations laid by jorvik and Andy B who both posts on here, we are now paid members of Supporters direct. They work with Trust who have vested interest/ownerships of their club and have an abundance of resources and expertise we can tap into when necessary. The ability to challenge with the knowedge/law/legal confidence that you can. Due dilligence? That would be between the the seller and the buyer originally and their legal teams/accountants (with the seller having to get approval from our landlords and any other secured loans against the club at the time (think the necarcu loan). As we are a business, Fit and proper person tests and i cant remember which UK body is responsible for this as i am only an admin kind of person. As we are a sporting organisation, the EFL had to approve the sale and from recent cases with other clubs, have tightened up on who buys a club...(think Portsmouth, Leeds, Leyton..) Reactive??....what can I say...yes i agree it seems to be the case at the moment with regards to timing of club statements and our notification..something we need to bottom out on both sides. sorry its not more Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 10 hours ago, maddog said: This. I’ve been known to happy clap in my time but that’s not because everything is ok. Not everything has been ok since... well, I can’t even put a date on it - I started going in 1991 and everything wasn’t ok then. I put a positive spin on things Laticsy because I want to. I want to take enjoyment from my hobby. It’s something that takes over my weekends and I share it with friends and family. That does not mean I’m stupid enough to think everything is ok. But given there’s fuck all I can do about the stuff that’s not ok, I’ll continue to try to find positives. I’m finding it really really hard at the moment though. Bloody hell Claire, if you're struggling to find the positives I've no chance in finding any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, archiecat said: I doubt that many fans will be wanting to give you or your fellow trust members a hard time at the moment. None of us knows what has happenned re Andy Rhodes but many are in the main suspicious of both the timing of the dismissal and release of owner update. That followed by reports of months of unpaid staff pensions kind of jangles the alarm bells. My personal thoughts,you should plan for the worse case scenario and be relieved if A, it doesn't come to that or B, you do win the lottery and bugger off Thanks Archie...i view it as no mans land/ the buffer between fans and club. It shouldn't be and we so wanted to get off the bloody fence and all and embrace the new era, a new start to focus on fans and club to pull us all together...in it together. We have learnt a lot about owner/trust relationship from the previous owner over the 14 years and reps in situ...its not an easy Role the Trust Rep on the board. To have work that dynamic of getting the Reps entitlement without getting the door slammed shut. Its not a jolly ride like some think it is ...You give your time up for free to ensure we have a club and recent times its been bloody hard for that person you are legally responsible for the club...you can be made bankrupt if it all goes belly up. I'd crack under that legal responsibility, club, staff, bills, debts.....its not for everyone its not for me. Barry went in at first with the "we demand"...kinda attitude and you can imagine the response. He had to work on it and he did...he got us up to a point where it was more of a mutual partnership. He even used his own Knowledge and saved the club money on annual policing costs...he was not eveyones club of tea but he got us to the point we needed to be Simon Brooke, came in at the time it was not going so well for the owner and as its well documented that he asked those tough questions at board level, new loans, embargoes, wind up orders, accounts, scoreboard monies (fans money), that caused the breakdown of the trust/owner relationship ...and for Simon Brooke it took it out of him at much personal costs. Diane, is new as the rep to the board since July, but not new to the Trust. She has been in place since the Trust inception, The Moore days, the TTA days, Corney and now Al. she is a known face at the club. she has to work with a new owner who has yet to announce the board, the plan all the stuff that people like lookers and singe have mentioned many time, in some ways we are back to early Barry without the "we demand...." yet....but having the knowledge of what previous reps have been through, our entitlement, the legality, the ability to challenge in a way and what support networks we can use (supporters direct) We are certainly not twiddling our thumbs saying everything is rosey at our club. we are working on it...im woring on it so much i'm no out of my pj's yet and its gone mid-day....aagghh... Thanks Edited October 27, 2018 by underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Nohairdontcare said: What a crock of shit from AL. “Togetherness” my arse. If he could sack the fans he would. I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He’s going to be the ruination of us. Sad times. Ruination is a brilliant word. Almost as good as winningest. Not quite but almost. Its taking ruin to a whole new level. Edited October 27, 2018 by L1onheartNew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 11 hours ago, League one forever said: Your right we know nothing for sure. . Expect. He’s had 3 managers in 12 months. He’s sacked Andy Rhodes on the eve of a game. He sacked Bryne and Gerrard. A lot of staff have left the club in the last six months. He doesn’t pay wages on time. All of the above has actually happened. I’m sure there all nobheads though. . He might be out of his depth. He might turn out to be a disaster. Yeah, all of those have happened. So? What can you or I do about it? By the way, yes at least 3 of the high profile sackings were indeed ‘nobheads’ (sic) (You’re, except and their) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 11 hours ago, League one forever said: Some strange and angry people on here. That was more pity than anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, kowenicki said: He might be out of his depth. He might turn out to be a disaster. Yeah, all of those have happened. So? What can you or I do about it? By the way, yes at least 3 of the high profile sackings were indeed ‘nobheads’ (sic) (You’re, except and their) *they're **Byrne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, kowenicki said: He might be out of his depth. He might turn out to be a disaster. Yeah, all of those have happened. So? What can you or I do about it? By the way, yes at least 3 of the high profile sackings were indeed ‘nobheads’ (sic) (You’re, except and their) Oh dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, underdog said: Thanks Archie...i view it as no mans land/ the buffer between fans and club. It shouldn't be and we so wanted to get off the bloody fence and all and embrace the new era, a new start to focus on fans and club to pull us all together...in it together. We have learnt a lot about owner/trust relationship from the previous owner over the 14 years and reps in situ...its not an easy Role the Trust Rep on the board. To have work that dynamic of getting the Reps entitlement without getting the door slammed shut. Its not a jolly ride like some think it is ...You give your time up for free to ensure we have a club and recent times its been bloody hard for that person you are legally responsible for the club...you can be made bankrupt if it all goes belly up. I'd crack under that legal responsibility, club, staff, bills, debts.....its not for everyone its not for me. Barry went in at first with the "we demand"...kinda attitude and you can imagine the response. He had to work on it and he did...he got us up to a point where it was more of a mutual partnership. He even used his own Knowledge and saved the club money on annual policing costs...he was not eveyones club of tea but he got us to the point we needed to be Simon Brooke, came in at the time it was not going so well for the owner and as its well documented that he asked those tough questions at board level, new loans, embargoes, wind up orders, accounts, scoreboard monies (fans money), that caused the breakdown of the trust/owner relationship ...and for Simon Brooke it took it out of him at much personal costs. Diane, is new as the rep to the board since July, but not new to the Trust. She has been in place since the Trust inception, The Moore days, the TTA days, Corney and now Al. she is a known face at the club. she has to work with a new owner who has yet to announce the board, the plan all the stuff that people like lookers and singe have mentioned many time, in some ways we are back to early Barry without the "we demand...." yet....but having the knowledge of what previous reps have been through, our entitlement, the legality, the ability to challenge in a way and what support networks we can use (supporters direct) We are certainly not twiddling our thumbs saying everything is rosey at our club. we are working on it...im woring on it so much i'm no out of my pj's yet and its gone mid-day....aagghh... Thanks Sounds bad for the rep on the board when they can be declared bankrupt as a board member and be completely at the mercy of an owners decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: *they're **Byrne Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: Oh dear. Yes darling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 13 hours ago, singe said: The average weekly loss for a L1 club, (accounts only go to last year of course) was 75,000. We're not on the list as we only report min information, and were late with our accounts at the time anyway. The Notts. County owner has just been on Football Focus. He says his club is losing £2.5m a year (and they make far more away from football than we do). He says that all L1 and L2 cubs are losing money, because of the way money from various sources is spread around, and he says it's got to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetwood Blue Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, al_bro said: Sounds bad for the rep on the board when they can be declared bankrupt as a board member and be completely at the mercy of an owners decisions. I was thinking the same, its a thankless task and to put your own life in the hands of somebody who makes countless decisions without the decency to even consult you is crazy..Especially with our recent track record i expect Diane to be declared bankrupt very soon through no fault of her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, fleetwood Blue said: I was thinking the same, its a thankless task and to put your own life in the hands of somebody who makes countless decisions without the decency to even consult you is crazy..Especially with our recent track record i expect Diane to be declared bankrupt very soon through no fault of her own. Eh? Why? Unless she, as a director, has acted wrongly or fraudulently, there is no chance that will happen. It’s a limited company. Edited October 27, 2018 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careca9 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, al_bro said: The Notts. County owner has just been on Football Focus. He says his club is losing £2.5m a year (and they make far more away from football than we do). He says that all L1 and L2 cubs are losing money, because of the way money from various sources is spread around, and he says it's got to change. Just seen it also but the only reason clubs are losing money is they are paying too much of their %income on wages. Not even bonus related to pay for wins/goals. Struggle to feel sorry for them including latics. Wimbledon/Accrington show it’s possible so losing money to that tune isn’t a must. Sacking people every other month can’t help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohairdontcare Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, L1onheartNew said: Ruination is a brilliant word. Almost as good as winningest. Not quite but almost. Its taking ruin to a whole new level. Has a few pints on me when posting - I stand over the overall sentiment though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk200 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, fleetwood Blue said: I was thinking the same, its a thankless task and to put your own life in the hands of somebody who makes countless decisions without the decency to even consult you is crazy..Especially with our recent track record i expect Diane to be declared bankrupt very soon through no fault of her own. It might be wise for her to resign asap, too much to expect her to place herself in such jeopardy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Steve_R said: Bloody hell Claire, if you're struggling to find the positives I've no chance in finding any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetwood Blue Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 21 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Eh? Why? If the person nominated from the trust to be on the board can also be financially responsible for the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 4 hours ago, underdog said: Morning everyone... wanted to give you a tentative update as a individual Trust director and personal thoughts. As you can imagine Trust directors phones have been on overdrive since the clubs two messages yesterday. We are discussing the events and not ignoring your concerns. We are talking, we are listening, we are discussing...honest. I know its not much at this stage but I wanted to say something as I've not been around much recently on this board and you might have thought I'd won the lottery and buggered off Cheers Get booking your "Meet the Manager" event with yet another new one. Bunn will be gone very soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 That means 20 were honest hardworking employees of OAFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said: Get booking your "Meet the Manager" event with yet another new one. Bunn will be gone very soon... Info or another hunch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, fleetwood Blue said: If the person nominated from the trust to be on the board can also be financially responsible for the club How? It’s a limited liability company. The liability of directors is limited to the amount of their financial injection to the company. So if they paid a pound for their shares then that’s their liability. I might be wrong but im sure someone with accountancy experience will be able to clarify. I seriously doubt she risks anything like bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetwood Blue Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, kowenicki said: How? It’s a limited liability company. The liability of directors is limited to the amount of their financial injection to the company. So if they paid a pound for their shares then that’s their liability. I might be wrong but im sure someone with accountancy experience will be able to clarify. I seriously doubt she risks anything like bankruptcy. This taken from Underdog’s statement... “We have learnt a lot about owner/trust relationship from the previous owner over the 14 years and reps in situ...its not an easy Role the Trust Rep on the board. To have work that dynamic of getting the Reps entitlement without getting the door slammed shut. Its not a jolly ride like some think it is ...You give your time up for free to ensure we have a club and recent times its been bloody hard for that person you are legally responsible for the club...you can be made bankrupt if it all goes belly up. I'd crack under that legal responsibility, club, staff, bills, debts.....its not for everyone its not for me.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, kowenicki said: How? It’s a limited liability company. The liability of directors is limited to the amount of their financial injection to the company. So if they paid a pound for their shares then that’s their liability. I might be wrong but im sure someone with accountancy experience will be able to clarify. I seriously doubt she risks anything like bankruptcy. I think you could be right somewhat with regards to them being category B shares. But I can't remember off the to off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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