Frankly Mr Shankly Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 50 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: They are probably the best thing to happen to football in the last 40 years. Personally I think the playoffs needs change too. Should be two teams near the relegation zone of one division against two teams who just missed out on promotion. Celebrating staying up by a point feels wrong and finishing that close to the drop zone ought to carry some extra jeopardy. Similar to how it used to be. Oh and also a rule that a team like Boreham Wood are automatically disqualified. 5 hours ago, Dave_Og said: Not sure it's stuck in the past. It's only six years since the current system was introduced. Sorry, meant the perceived big divide between league and non-league is stuck in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 44 minutes ago, Steve_R said: Unsworth might as well not open his gob then. If he can’t emphasise the ambition to go up automatically without worrying people will twist his words then we might as well give up. I accept the playoffs are here to stay, but they’re not right. It’s more the fact that it lowers peoples ambition that irks me though. Instead of aiming for automatic promotion the playoffs is the new bar, which usually means the last playoff place. There’s no success in getting in the playoffs unless you win them. We need to aim as high as possible, and if we can’t win the league finish second or third. The best chance you have of winning the playoffs if you end up in there is to be the best team in them, but it seems like nowadays 7th is the holy grail. That doesn’t make any sense Steve. Not every team can realistically win the league. Should Dorking and Wrexham this season both be aiming to win league because 7th is beneath them?? No, because for Wrexham it would be a poor return on investment and for Dorking it would be a minor miracle given their budget. The playoffs equalise the division and give more sides a chance of doing something. What you are suggesting would it make a closed shop to 90% of sides. As an example - if we struggle if the first 10/15 games next season- would you be happy to accept that the season is gone. Because i can’t remember a side ever starting poorly to go on and win the title. But plenty have started poorly- got in the playoffs- and gone up. And even if they didn’t. They at least had the hope and excitement for 20/30 games that they might do, as opposed to ‘pack it in boys we’ve only won 4 of the first 12 games so what’s the point.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 Still sticks in my throat that Stevenage will be two leagues above Latics after a Covid-foreshortened season saw them escape certain relegation to Non League. Latics were what, 22pts the better at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, League one forever said: That doesn’t make any sense Steve. Not every team can realistically win the league. Should Dorking and Wrexham this season both be aiming to win league because 7th is beneath them?? No, because for Wrexham it would be a poor return on investment and for Dorking it would be a minor miracle given their budget. The playoffs equalise the division and give more sides a chance of doing something. What you are suggesting would it make a closed shop to 90% of sides. As an example - if we struggle if the first 10/15 games next season- would you be happy to accept that the season is gone. Because i can’t remember a side ever starting poorly to go on and win the title. But plenty have started poorly- got in the playoffs- and gone up. And even if they didn’t. They at least had the hope and excitement for 20/30 games that they might do, as opposed to ‘pack it in boys we’ve only won 4 of the first 12 games so what’s the point.’ I’m not arsed what Dorking do or think they should do. And in reality the division shouldn’t be equalised. The best teams over the course of the season should go up, not someone who’s been average at best for the bulk of it but comes with a late run and nicks seventh place. I’ve never liked them but It’ll never change and they have done a lot of good in keeping the season interesting for longer. I suppose I’m still cursing the injustice of 1987. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 28 minutes ago, Steve_R said: I’m not arsed what Dorking do or think they should do. And in reality the division shouldn’t be equalised. The best teams over the course of the season should go up, not someone who’s been average at best for the bulk of it but comes with a late run and nicks seventh place. I’ve never liked them but It’ll never change and they have done a lot of good in keeping the season interesting for longer. I suppose I’m still cursing the injustice of 1987. The scars run deep, don't they. Robbed of promotion. People often forget what Joe did for us that season. Edwards is almost on a par with Hughes. That said, I often wonder if it was a blessing in a disguise. The team that got promotion and was covered in great cup exploits was much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 55 minutes ago, Steve_R said: And in reality the division shouldn’t be equalised. The best teams over the course of the season should go up, not someone who’s been average at best for the bulk of it but comes with a late run and nicks seventh place. It shouldn’t be equalised. . . So why is the premier league the most competitive division in arguably world football. Because they give equal money to each club- without that model the league would be a joke, with no real competition. In effect you want the same thing. The biggest and best clubs can only do anything- and you’re not arsed about Dorking anyway. . At the of the start season - who were the favourites? Wrexham, Notts county, and possibly chesterfield. They finished 1,2,3 which means every season you can more or less call the winners before a ball is kicked. Sounds electric. . . Let’s say they did do what you want, and back to two up automatically and no playoff. Are you happy to accept then that our season could be over if we start poorly next year? Basically making every game completely redundant- because we’ve lost too much ground to the league leaders. Not for me. Oh and who wants to nick 7th. . . It sounds dreadful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, League one forever said: It shouldn’t be equalised. . . So why is the premier league the most competitive division in arguably world football. Because they give equal money to each club- without that model the league would be a joke, with no real competition. In effect you want the same thing. The biggest and best clubs can only do anything- and you’re not arsed about Dorking anyway. . At the of the start season - who were the favourites? Wrexham, Notts county, and possibly chesterfield. They finished 1,2,3 which means every season you can more or less call the winners before a ball is kicked. Sounds electric. . . Let’s say they did do what you want, and back to two up automatically and no playoff. Are you happy to accept then that our season could be over if we start poorly next year? Basically making every game completely redundant- because we’ve lost too much ground to the league leaders. Not for me. Oh and who wants to nick 7th. . . It sounds dreadful. The premier league is the most competitive league that the same team keeps winning, and barring Leicester the big boys win everything up there anyway. I think Dorking’s exploits have been brilliant, but what their expectations are for next season are of no concern to me. The good thing about any sport is that anything is possible, but the best teams always emerge as the winners. Not necessarily the biggest clubs, but the best team. I think you misunderstand what I’m saying. Taking aside my dislike for the playoffs anyway, I think we should aim to win the league. I’m not saying we will win it, or even that I think we’ll win it, but we should aim to be battling right at the top of the league, where like Wrexham and Notts County this season, we don’t want to be in the playoffs. We shouldn’t be happy if we end up 7th. That may change as the season unfolds, but the planning and aim now should be to go up automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Steve_R said: Unsworth might as well not open his gob then. If he can’t emphasise the ambition to go up automatically without worrying people will twist his words then we might as well give up. I accept the playoffs are here to stay, but they’re not right. It’s more the fact that it lowers peoples ambition that irks me though. Instead of aiming for automatic promotion the playoffs is the new bar, which usually means the last playoff place. There’s no success in getting in the playoffs unless you win them. We need to aim as high as possible, and if we can’t win the league finish second or third. The best chance you have of winning the playoffs if you end up in there is to be the best team in them, but it seems like nowadays 7th is the holy grail. I've seen you raise this point about aiming for top spot a few times now Steve and to an extent I'm largely agreeing with you, but do you think they are aiming at 7th I think The Board, The team management, the players are all going to aim at top spot, and they will take action to make that happen, they just don't want to say it out loud to put a target on their backs. Edited May 8, 2023 by GlossopLatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Steve_R said: I think you misunderstand what I’m saying. Taking aside my dislike for the playoffs anyway, I think we should aim to win the league. I’m not saying we will win it, or even that I think we’ll win it, but we should aim to be battling right at the top of the league, where like Wrexham and Notts County this season, we don’t want to be in the playoffs. We shouldn’t be happy if we end up 7th. That may change as the season unfolds, but the planning and aim now should be to go up automatically We were talking about your dislike of playoffs, and I was offering the counter argument. On the playoffs- I fully understand what you’re saying I just don’t agree. As for the specific point on what we should be aiming for - I definitely agree. We should aim to win the league, and not because we are entitled or deluded. But because we’re one of if not the biggest sides in the division, with a top 3 budget. It’s fair to say we should be aiming for the title. I think saying to Unsworth just try and get 7th is setting the bar to low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: I've seen you raise this point about aiming for top spot a few times now Steve and to an extent I'm largely agreeing with you, but do you think they are aiming at 7th I think The Board, The team management, the players are all going to aim at top spot, and they will take action to make that happen, they just don't want to say it out loud to put a target on their backs. I would hope they are aiming at top spot and think they will be. I suppose I just have a bee in my bonnet about people going on about the playoffs when that should only be the fall back option if the title starts slipping out of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 9 hours ago, Steve_R said: I would hope they are aiming at top spot and think they will be. I suppose I just have a bee in my bonnet about people going on about the playoffs when that should only be the fall back option if the title starts slipping out of sight. love the first part of the attitude, but thats not what you said. you said we should aim for top and that the play offs need going in the bin two up two down like the gold days! that was obviously going to recieve legitimate counter argument. l think it was Matt on the pod (and also glossopp above) saying he is sure that within the club the aim is the title. l also feel this is the case and the club not shouting it everywhere is the correct approach. its going to be a longggg summer. l actually love Cricket, but even for me this is gona drag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 27 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: love the first part of the attitude, but thats not what you said. you said we should aim for top and that the play offs need going in the bin two up two down like the gold days! that was obviously going to recieve legitimate counter argument. l think it was Matt on the pod (and also glossopp above) saying he is sure that within the club the aim is the title. l also feel this is the case and the club not shouting it everywhere is the correct approach. its going to be a longggg summer. l actually love Cricket, but even for me this is gona drag! My dislike of the playoffs is just my personal opinion. They’re here to stay so they are the option if all else fails. It just seems to me that some are happy to settle for them before a ball has been kicked or the squad put together for next season, which baffles me. You’re right though, as long as those that matter within the club are aiming high, which I’m sure they are, then that’s all that matters. I think me and Monty might be on the same wavelength! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCLongsuffeting Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Steve_R said: My dislike of the playoffs is just my personal opinion. They’re here to stay so they are the option if all else fails. It just seems to me that some are happy to settle for them before a ball has been kicked or the squad put together for next season, which baffles me. You’re right though, as long as those that matter within the club are aiming high, which I’m sure they are, then that’s all that matters. I think me and Monty might be on the same wavelength! Im sure he will agree that you should probably be worried 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 12 hours ago, Steve_R said: I would hope they are aiming at top spot and think they will be. I suppose I just have a bee in my bonnet about people going on about the playoffs when that should only be the fall back option if the title starts slipping out of sight. For us to get top spot we need a drastic change in the midfield. The current Shelton / Sheron combo would not be able to breakdown teams consistently when they sit in on the edge of the area. I am sure they will make the signings needed, but until they do, I can’t see top spot as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Steve_R said: I think me and Monty might be on the same wavelength! You don't want that pal! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I'm slightly worried a few people are getting onboard HMS Piss the League once more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Chesterfield charging £59 for dry coaches. We really need to win the league... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, dannyboy55555 said: I'm slightly worried a few people are getting onboard HMS Piss the League once more. But we've beaten two sides who went down, another in freefall, and a club who's in disarray behind the scenes. Oh yeah and drew with Bromley's B team. Nailed on isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, LightDN123 said: For us to get top spot we need a drastic change in the midfield. The current Shelton / Sheron combo would not be able to breakdown teams consistently when they sit in on the edge of the area. I am sure they will make the signings needed, but until they do, I can’t see top spot as an option. the only way they can both play is in a 4231 which fits Rooney in the 10. however, l expect us to sign at least one top CM and Sheron/Shelton play around half the matches, maybe some at RB when new top RB misses a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, dannyboy55555 said: I'm slightly worried a few people are getting onboard HMS Piss the League once more. you can't spell entitled without title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 As a few have said, as it stands, we really don’t have the players to win this league, especially midfield, so I’m amazed so many are predicting us as champions before we have signed a single new player Im optimistic because the new owners and management are pretty much signalling great things in the summer but until we see the evidence we are surely still only a mid table to sneaking into the playoffs squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, oafcmetty said: But we've beaten two sides who went down, another in freefall, and a club who's in disarray behind the scenes. Oh yeah and drew with Bromley's B team. Nailed on isn't it? Not forgetting that we ALMOST drew at BP with the top two sides, Wrexham (losing in the 96th minute so I’m told) and Notts County, beat the third placed team Chesterfield at their place, the fourth placed team Woking at BP and Barnet, who finished fifth, away from home. So I suppose you’re right when you say that it’s nailed on Edited May 9, 2023 by TheBigDog Get your facts right BD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 22 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: Even he says something along the lines of we are aiming to win the league but we can't guarantee anything in football that will easily turn into a rod for his own back. People will unfortunately interpret that as a promise of winning the league that's what people are like. They twist everything a manager says at the best of times. You do not get anywhere near the level of excitement in either the league or FA cup that you do in the play offs it simply doesn't happen. They aren't always fair infact they rarely are but getting rid of them would be disatourous for football outside the premier league you would really struggle to get the interest levels up. They are probably the best thing to happen to football in the last 40 years. I don't agree about the cup competitions - are you telling me that beating Liverpool wasn't unbelievably exciting? And Fulham? What about boring play-off matches, plenty of those. With 3 rather than 2 points for a win, mid table teams who go on a run can easily move rapidly up the league table, especially if teams above are drawing/losing. A season like this one, with Wrexham and Notts County streets ahead of the rest, is exceptional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Chesterfield charging £59 for dry coaches. We really need to win the league... No glass bottles then?....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: Not forgetting that we drew at BP with the top two sides, Wrexham Errr no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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