National League Thread

[yarddog73]

1 minute ago, deyres42 said:

Impossible, every manager needs a summer transfer window or they can't possibly improve anything.

Very true look at Gareshead who have about 14 players and a manager only in place since October, lost their Captain, keeper recalled sold their best players in January, they'll do well to stay up. Hold on....

[Littlemoor Lad]

9 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Impossible, every manager needs a summer transfer window or they can't possibly improve anything.

Need any more paper for the cracks?

[nzlatic]

20 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Impossible, every manager needs a summer transfer window or they can't possibly improve anything.

Solihull manager was appointed Jun 28th 2023.

[nzlatic]

17 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Very true look at Gareshead who have about 14 players and a manager only in place since October, lost their Captain, keeper recalled sold their best players in January, they'll do well to stay up. Hold on....

Gateshead is the one team in the top 10 that's changed manager mid season other than us. Given Williamson left and took players with him he's done a great job.

[deyres42]

28 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Solihull manager was appointed Jun 28th 2023.

Like I say, every manager needs a summer transfer window.

[Lee Sinnott]

31 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Gateshead is the one team in the top 10 that's changed manager mid season other than us. Given Williamson left and took players with him he's done a great job.

I'm pretty sure he's still only interim manager too...

[nzlatic]

1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I'm pretty sure he's still only interim manager too...

Yeah I saw that. Bit strange, would have thought he’s done more than enough to get the gig.

[Glossop Shrimper]

2 hours ago, BradKnowles1 said:

. . . Southend . . . All their off field problems still a winding up petition no squad for most of the season. 

 

The irony behind that winding up order beggars belief. It was raised by the lawyers representing the owner in previous winding up petitions. They argued then that SUFC were a community asset, should be given time to pay, etc. They won repeatedly and secured multiple adjournments.

 

Now, they're the plantiffs for monies owed to them by the owner! That debt, £450k, will pass to the new consortium, who will pay once they become the legal owners of  the club.

 

Since contracts were exchanged last December, the consortium have invested £2 - £3m in the club, agreements made with creditors to defer debts until it's sold, especially to keep the electricity on, and water flowing. This law firm can't wait. Understandable if hey were skint, but our supporters looked at their accounts at Compnies House: profit £47m last accounts received.

 

Court case next week. Adjournment expected, 'club is a community asset' and should be given time to pay, er ... I hope.

 

[Lee Sinnott]

Fylde v Gateshead tomorrow subject to pitch inspection. That will mean Gateshead will need to fit in 5 league games between 13th and 20th April...

[Worcester Owl]

7 hours ago, yarddog73 said:

Very true look at Gareshead who have about 14 players and a manager only in place since October, lost their Captain, keeper recalled sold their best players in January, they'll do well to stay up. Hold on....

They had a full bench when they played Rochdale the other day. 

[astottie]

On 4/9/2024 at 9:11 PM, astottie said:

They won't change games already scheduled. 

 

Shows how little I know. Gateshead v Chesterfield brought forward from Tuesday to Monday. Chesterfield fans understandably not happy.

[spanishfly]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:32 AM, LaticsEddie said:

The short of it is that some teams try to "moneyball" it but most use it as a way for scouts to watch more players easier. 

Thanks. Did we watch the dross we signed then, after they had, presumably, impressed on statsbomb? It's nonsense. Football is still a very simple game; if only people would let it be.

Edited April 12 by spanishfly

[OneSizeFitz]

3 hours ago, spanishfly said:

Thanks. Did we watch the dross we signed then, after they had, presumably, impressed on statsbomb? It's nonsense. Football is still a very simple game; if only people would let it be.

 

Which of the best teams in the world don't use data as part of their scouting process, do you suppose? 

[nzlatic]

A medical room with all these new fangled machines and devices to help physios deal with injuries and rehabilitation better? What tosh. Nothing wrong with a bucket and a sponge. 

[BP1960]

8 hours ago, OneSizeFitz said:

 

Which of the best teams in the world don't use data as part of their scouting process, do you suppose? 

 

Stats are only an indicator, Ive nothing against them being in conjunction with actually watching a player to see if he currently matches up to them.

However, most youths will have no stats at all and this is where scouting judgment comes into its own.

I remember a Blackpool loanee at Scunthorpe called Rob Apter impressing me a couple of seasons ago and he was definitely one I'd have paid a big fee for rather than Nuttall.

He's at Tranmere on loan now and it will be interesting to see what happens when his loan spell is over.

 

[nzlatic]

1 hour ago, BP1960 said:

 

Stats are only an indicator, Ive nothing against them being in conjunction with actually watching a player to see if he currently matches up to them.

Absolutely. And this is how they are being used I think. I’m sure it’s been said that the stats tools are used to identify possible players from a wider selection. They are then shortlisted and scouted in the more traditional sense. 
 

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Just now, nzlatic said:

Absolutely. And this is how they are being used I think. I’m sure it’s been said that the stats tools are used to identify possible players from a wider selection. They are then shortlisted and scouted in the more traditional sense. 
 

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

 

Quite right. I guess the alternative is to traditionally scout at step one, but there is a huge potential you may be missing a great player that's just not on your radar and SB narrows that.

 

When the takeover went through, there was a school of thought that we wanted to build the infrastructure that was ready for L1 football so that when the rise through the leagues happens, as expected, we'd be ready to compete straight 'out of the box'. SB is part of that and I'm sure data is used by almost every club from L1 upwards anyway. It's only when bumps in the road happen, that some rudimentary narrow-thinking commentary arises such as "A lot of the players are terrible. It must be Stats Bombs fault".

 

It's also reasonable to expect that SB might not flourish until you've used it for a decent amount of time. High performance IT systems adapt and evolve to your business model over a set amount of time. I don't think the casual fan is in a sound enough position to provide much convincing critique on a system like that unless they've used it regularly themselves.

[nzlatic]

17 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Quite right. I guess the alternative is to traditionally scout at step one, but there is a huge potential you may be missing a great player that's just not on your radar and SB narrows that.

 

When the takeover went through, there was a school of thought that we wanted to build the infrastructure that was ready for L1 football so that when the rise through the leagues happens, as expected, we'd be ready to compete straight 'out of the box'. SB is part of that and I'm sure data is used by almost every club from L1 upwards anyway. It's only when bumps in the road happen, that some rudimentary narrow-thinking commentary arises such as "A lot of the players are terrible. It must be Stats Bombs fault".

 

It's also reasonable to expect that SB might not flourish until you've used it for a decent amount of time. High performance IT systems adapt and evolve to your business model over a set amount of time. I don't think the casual fan is in a sound enough position to provide much convincing critique on a system like that unless they've used it regularly themselves.

Really good point in last para. The whole journey back to L1 won’t be a straight line either. There’ll be lots of ups and downs and mistakes made. I’d guess mistakes will occur more frequently in the early years too. 
 

Just because mistakes happen, we have spells of bad form, appoint the wrong manager or sign the wrong players doesn’t mean we’re not on the right path. 

[BP1960]

2 hours ago, nzlatic said:

Absolutely. And this is how they are being used I think. I’m sure it’s been said that the stats tools are used to identify possible players from a wider selection. They are then shortlisted and scouted in the more traditional sense. 
 

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

 

But we can't have scouted players at the time like Freeman who had injury problems.

Appears to me more like agent recommendations.

Edited April 13 by BP1960

[yarddog73]

18 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

But we can't have scouted players at the time like Freeman who had injury problems.

Appears to me more like agent recommendations.

Lazy recruitment, like most things on the football side from players to staff they think it's just gonna fall in to their laps and with that mindset it isn't.  

[nzlatic]

55 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

But we can't have scouted players at the time like Freeman who had injury problems.

Appears to me more like agent recommendations.

I have no idea what the process was with Freeman but they only gave him a 6 month deal so they obviously didn’t feel confident signing him up for longer. I’d be more interested in the process for those we give longer, permanent contracts to. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

57 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

But we can't have scouted players at the time like Freeman who had injury problems.

Appears to me more like agent recommendations.

Freeman was a total panic buy after DU, having spent days fawning over his new marquee signing, suddenly realised we were still without a RB.

[League one forever]

3 hours ago, nzlatic said:

The way some are talking is as if DR is using statsbomb like top trumps, seeing a striker with 10/10 for shooting and signing him to a 3 year deal. 

 

Or some fans are - to quote Mellon ‘looking with their eyes’ 

 

The contradictions here are baffling. 
 

We have 6 centre backs. 
 

No right back 

 

No cover for Kitch 

 

We have 7 strikers 

 

One wide player. 
 

The reasoning is - Stats are used to gather information on required players and then passed to the manager. . .
 

Ok. . . 
 

So, it can only be one of one two things then, either the stats are passed onto the manager for players in positions we already have, (and weirdly it doesn’t produce stats for right backs)  or the manager is requesting players in positions we already have and the board keep sanctioning it. 
 

That isn’t guesswork- just look at the squad dynamic- it’s a mess. 
 

We then have Mellon changing his tune from saying - 

 

We have to respect the money the family have spent, and get the best out of what we’ve got. (Which he did to be fair, it’s gone downhill since he made the signings) 

 

To

 

I know what a good player looks like. 

We don’t have a right back. (Despite signing a RWB for his preferred shape at that time) 

 

We’ll have to wheel and deal in the summer. 
 

The football operation - which means, how we scout and recruit,  profile and age of player, sell on value, youth coming through- has all been poor. It really needs addressing this summer, and it needs to start with some acceptance that the club have spunked a lot of money for very little return. 

 

 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

10 minutes ago, League one forever said:

 

Or some fans are - to quote Mellon ‘looking with their eyes’ 

 

The contradictions here are baffling. 
 

We have 6 centre backs. 
 

No right back 

 

No cover for Kitch 

 

We have 7 strikers 

 

One wide player. 
 

The reasoning is - Stats are used to gather information on required players and then passed to the manager. . .
 

Ok. . . 
 

So, it can only be one of one two things then, either the stats are passed onto the manager for players in positions we already have, (and weirdly it doesn’t produce stats for right backs)  or the manager is requesting players in positions we already have and the board keep sanctioning it. 
 

That isn’t guesswork- just look at the squad dynamic- it’s a mess. 
 

We then have Mellon changing his tune from saying - 

 

We have to respect the money the family have spent, and get the best out of what we’ve got. (Which he did to be fair, it’s gone downhill since he made the signings) 

 

To

 

I know what a good player looks like. 

We don’t have a right back. (Despite signing a RWB for his preferred shape at that time) 

 

We’ll have to wheel and deal in the summer. 
 

The football operation - which means, how we scout and recruit,  profile and age of player, sell on value, youth coming through- has all been poor. It really needs addressing this summer, and it needs to start with some acceptance that the club have spunked a lot of money for very little return. 

 

 

 

I think there's some fair observations in this. @BPAS mentioned that they'll try and get DR, MM on for an interview soon. It'll be a good question to directly ask; if SB was employed and used last summer, why was the overrall recruitment so unbalanaced?

 

I suspect I know what the answer is going to be though.

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

I think there's some fair observations in this. @BPAS mentioned that they'll try and get DR, MM on for an interview soon. It'll be a good question to directly ask; if SB was employed and used last summer, why was the overrall recruitment so unbalanaced?

 

I suspect I know what the answer is going to be though.

Spot on.