24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 "What I would close by saying is that proven guilty or innocent in the long term there are a LOT of people defending what at this time is a convicted rapist, based on wild speculation and gossip - that I find distasteful." Or equally, distasteful in the sense that should his conviction be quashed, there will be a LOT of people who won't acknowledge his innocence?, I don't know whether you've seen the latest Papal encyclical or not, but there's coincidentally a passage about the meaning of the word "innocence". For instance, a bloke who goes round to a hotel with the intention of having sex with someone who's just had sex with his mate would not qualify. Nor would someone who set up a website demonising someone against whom they have committed a heinous crime. People who get off on technicalities or because their father-in-law has stacks of cash to spend on the dodgiest legal advice available are also out. The appeal court is what it is and good luck to their honours, but Ched might live to be 1,000 years old and still not make the cut at the Pearly Gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 My agenda of clearing my name and getting back into work, you mean? If I am cleared of the crime which is looking likely, then I become the victim and SHE is the one that can "get to :censored:". Oh wait, she already did get to :censored:. She got to :censored: 2 footballers, bragged about it then decided to ruin their lives in hope of hitting the "jackpot". (Allegedly) Anyone that truly believes I am a monster rapist is just being naive and following the do-good trend of hatred towards me. Most footballers get drunk and have sex. Hell, the captain of the England national team has done it. George Best was a pro at it. A current premier league player has allegedly done it with a 15 year old. It happens on a daily basis. Most women just don't have the audacity to cry rape when they think they can get some cash out of it. If I'm cleared, or even if I'm not, I'd want to watch me play football for Oldham if I was scoring goals. Served the time allocated to the crime he was found guilty of and now I am a free man. Cheers Ched. If you're cleared, or even if you're not, you're still too obnoxious (even for a footballer) to wear anyone's shirt ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 "What I would close by saying is that proven guilty or innocent in the long term there are a LOT of people defending what at this time is a convicted rapist, based on wild speculation and gossip - that I find distasteful." Or equally, distasteful in the sense that should his conviction be quashed, there will be a LOT of people who won't acknowledge his innocence?, What's more distasteful? Defending a convicted rapist or not accepting his innocence post-fact? I would say both are wrong but at this time people are defending a convicted rapist. And as has been highlighted if proven "innocent" he still had sex with a drunk teenager - I find it hard to believe he's innocent, merely he may be innocent of the crime he was convicted of. That said, that's speculative on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 What's more distasteful? Defending a convicted rapist or not accepting his innocence post-fact? I would say both are wrong but at this time people are defending a convicted rapist. And as has been highlighted if proven "innocent" he still had sex with a drunk teenager - I find it hard to believe he's innocent, merely he may be innocent of the crime he was convicted of. That said, that's speculative on my part. So if he's innocent of rape what crime do you think he's guilty of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I don't know whether you've seen the latest Papal encyclical or not, but there's coincidentally a passage about the meaning of the word "innocence". For instance, a bloke who goes round to a hotel with the intention of having sex with someone who's just had sex with his mate would not qualify. Nor would someone who set up a website demonising someone against whom they have committed a heinous crime. People who get off on technicalities or because their father-in-law has stacks of cash to spend on the dodgiest legal advice available are also out. The appeal court is what it is and good luck to their honours, but Ched might live to be 1,000 years old and still not make the cut at the Pearly Gates. I'm an aetheist so I have to make my own moral judgements - but having god on your side shouldn't absolve you from doing the same. As it happens, I have absolutely no affinity with Evans or his claims to innocence and accept his conviction one hundred percent. What I did at the time object to was being called a rape apologist when this clearly wasn't the case. My principle concern about the whole affair was, and still is, the level of intimidation used to circumnavigate his lawful right to employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 So if he's innocent of rape what crime do you think he's guilty of? Well that would be very speculative as I've already said - and thus mostly redundant. But we've got in to a very circular argument so I'm going to let it drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 What's more distasteful? Defending a convicted rapist or not accepting his innocence post-fact? I would say both are wrong but at this time people are defending a convicted rapist. And as has been highlighted if proven "innocent" he still had sex with a drunk teenager - I find it hard to believe he's innocent, merely he may be innocent of the crime he was convicted of. That said, that's speculative on my part. Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm an aetheist so I have to make my own moral judgements - but having god on your side shouldn't absolve you from doing the same. As it happens, I have absolutely no affinity with Evans or his claims to innocence and accept his conviction one hundred percent. What I did at the time object to was being called a rape apologist when this clearly wasn't the case. My principle concern about the whole affair was, and still is, the level of intimidation used to circumnavigate his lawful right to employment. He's got a right to work as something else. What has Ched been doing for a living recently? Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. Does it? Things have changed since I was that age. And although footballers are footballers...most of them probably find it utterly rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. Wonderfully put. :censored:ing hell, we've come a long way since knocking them out and dragging them in to a cave haven't we!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Fingers crosses there's an appeal against the verdict of the appeal so we can do this all again, again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. Pretty much this. Kind of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagger Lee Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Wonderfully put. :censored:ing hell, we've come a long way since knocking them out and dragging them in to a cave haven't we!? Not really - and I note your sarcasm - because many posts on here still suggest that women who have multiple sex partners, and are drunk, are by default victims of men. Thankfully the world is evolving and women having the right to 'party' hard and not to be condemned as victims or sluts by men but as humans free to enjoy themselves ( or make mistakes) without being judged by male opinions ...... it would seem that many of us have not read that memo though and just see women as perpetual victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plenty of people are acquitted on technicalities. Of legal stumbles. It does not make them innocent, or that they did not do it, it just means they have not been convicted or acquitted of the charges. In this case, there may be more evidence, or there may be just legal bluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Remembering all the newspaper column inches covering Latics proposed signing of Evans, I was surprised to find that the latest development in his case was tucked away on page 20 in a side column of the Chron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Ched Evans should have changed his name, so to escape the constant harassment - it must be terribly difficult for him; and if his real identity was ever uncovered he could always change it again. And again. And again. And again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If you believed you were innocent for a crime you were set to be convicted of, I'm sure your family and friends would also do all they could to prove your innocence. At no point did he ask people on social media to "hound" her. I stayed in a hotel room with my cousin the other week that only he had paid for, does that mean I'm a fraud and shouldn't be able to work again? Regarding her being blind drunk? :censored: right off. At no point on the CCTV does she even nearly fall over or even stumble. She even bends down to pick up her pizza in her heels. Not to mention the fact that her blood test showed that the amount of alcohol she had consumed would NOT be enough to suffer any memory loss or make her unable to make simple decisions. He was acutely aware that her hounding was going on. His repeatedly refused to ask for it to stop, despite knowing it was being done in his name. It was only when he thought it might increase his chances of acquital and show some remorse about the effects did he issue a statement. Far too late to be sincere. I m assuming you did not lie to get back into the room and have sex with your cousin, who was blind drunk, and without explicit consent? What a crass irrelevent example. The Night Port did indeed confirm that she was being held up, that she was blank expression she was so drunk. How do you know what happened and what was consumed between the pizza place and the hotel? At the pizza place she fell over stumbling several times and had her bra showing. You need to use more than Evans website, and stop simplifying a very complex issue. I suggest you read the transcript of why the appeal was rejected, it clearly states a medical expert explaining why she was capable of memory loss, yet could be relatively ( important word) coherent at the time. Just because Ched Evans says it is a key and undisputed fact, does not make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. In your opinion it would not be rape. Watching a friend have sex, and then having sex your self will happen, and but not as often as you are letting your imagination tell you it does. Who on earth is saying everyone having sex with someone drunk is a rapist? Nonetheless, no consent would make it rape. Of course, some may not remember at all. Some may choose to bury it. Some may not feel the effects for many years to come. Does not mean it was not rape either, depends on the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plenty of early 20's lads will have sex with drunk 18-19 year olds this weekend it doesnt make them rapists even if they are having dip after their mate, it happens. This is the quote that boils my piss. If the girl does not know what they're doing, yes it does make them rapists. It's the law. It has always happened. But it has only recently been realised how wrong it is. Such a shame for all those early 20s lads though. Unable to have such an easy 'dip' legally. Maybe they need educating that it is illegal and they may be prosecuted, rather than us having these ridiculous arguments over and over. It's illegal. Try shagging someone sober enough to know what they're doing. Or is that too much effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This is the quote that boils my piss. If the girl does not know what they're doing, yes it does make them rapists. It's the law. It has always happened. But it has only recently been realised how wrong it is. Such a shame for all those early 20s lads though. Unable to have such an easy 'dip' legally. Maybe they need educating that it is illegal and they may be prosecuted, rather than us having these ridiculous arguments over and over. It's illegal. Try shagging someone sober enough to know what they're doing. Or is that too much effort? Please show me where I stated the 18-19 year old wouldnt know what they were doing, lets face it it she went back to the hotel with a guy she had just met for sex, that was established in court, Evans conviction was based on her not giving consent as she was in no fit state to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Please show me where I stated the 18-19 year old wouldnt know what they were doing, lets face it it she went back to the hotel with a guy she had just met for sex, that was established in court, Evans conviction was based on her not giving consent as she was in no fit state to.She didn't go back to have sex with Evans though did she? Maybe why he was found guilty - and his mate wasn't Edited October 6, 2015 by JWhite101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 He was acutely aware that her hounding was going on. His repeatedly refused to ask for it to stop, despite knowing it was being done in his name. It was only when he thought it might increase his chances of acquital and show some remorse about the effects did he issue a statement. Far too late to be sincere. I m assuming you did not lie to get back into the room and have sex with your cousin, who was blind drunk, and without explicit consent? What a crass irrelevent example. The Night Port did indeed confirm that she was being held up, that she was blank expression she was so drunk. How do you know what happened and what was consumed between the pizza place and the hotel? At the pizza place she fell over stumbling several times and had her bra showing. You need to use more than Evans website, and stop simplifying a very complex issue. I suggest you read the transcript of why the appeal was rejected, it clearly states a medical expert explaining why she was capable of memory loss, yet could be relatively ( important word) coherent at the time. Just because Ched Evans says it is a key and undisputed fact, does not make it so. In his eyes, why should he publicly jump to the defence of the woman ruining his life? I imagine he was scared and angry by this point and can't see protecting her being the top of his priorities. The hotel comment was just as irrelevant as yours then my friend. If your argument wasn't flawed you wouldn't need to use little extra snippets to make it sound even worse. What was consumed between the takeaway and hotel makes no difference to my argument as I've watched the CCTV footage from the hotel lobby and nowhere does she even nearly fall over. She comes in and even goes back outside to retrieve her pizza then comes back in. In heels. If she's "blind drunk" she would have hit the deck at some point there or at the very least stumbled. We can argue back and forth forever but the facts are his conviction will likely be overturned and he will have served 3 years in jail for a crime he did not commit be it legally or genuinely. Not only will he have spent all this time falsely behind bars, but the mob STILL won't let him return to work without a big hoohah being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 She didn't go back to have sex with Evans though did she? Maybe why he was found guilty - and his mate wasn't The fact she was bragging about sleeping with two footballers on facebook the next day only to delete it may be grounds for him proving he isnt, as that evidence has now been retrieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) The fact she was bragging about sleeping with two footballers on facebook the next day only to delete it may be grounds for him proving he isnt, as that evidence has now been retrieved.Where's it been published that that's the evidence that has been retrieved? A deleted Facebook post can't be retrieved unless Facebook locate and divulge it themselves or it comes from examination of the device that originally posted it and I doubt the victim has given Ched and his team her phone or computer and Facebook are renowned for not co-operating with basic law enforcement requests... Source - I work for one Unless said post has been screenshot by someone prior to deletion of course and they've now handed it over Edited October 6, 2015 by JWhite101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 As a side note... Does anyone else just want to go back to talking/bitching/moaning about Oldham Athletic?? Just seen this post is second in replies only to the North Stand Construction thread!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 When (and it is a big WHEN) this is overturned, he won't be dropping down to our level to sign for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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