Worcester Owl Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 55 minutes ago, Andy b said: The EFL should have let the super league happen. It was for the best and still is. Chance for the EFL (and rest of the Prem that can’t keep up) to reset and find a new sustainable existence based on the principles which we all wish our clubs were able to live by. The "super" league (with Spurs included ) was and is a disgusting idea, and you seem to have forgotten that the supporters of United, City, etc were implacably opposed to it. No promotion/relegation, and an endless series of made-for-TV meaningless games, as opposed to the traditional rivalries of domestic league football. It was and remains nothing more than an escape hatch for the hard-up Spanish and Italian clubs to try to get out of their current financial difficulties. For all the faults of the PL it's very far removed from the Frankinstein obscenity that a European Super League would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Worcester Owl said: The "super" league (with Spurs included ) was and is a disgusting idea, and you seem to have forgotten that the supporters of United, City, etc were implacably opposed to it. No promotion/relegation, and an endless series of made-for-TV meaningless games, as opposed to the traditional rivalries of domestic league football. It was and remains nothing more than an escape hatch for the hard-up Spanish and Italian clubs to try to get out of their current financial difficulties. For all the faults of the PL it's very far removed from the Frankinstein obscenity that a European Super League would be. Fundamentally disagree. I haven’t forgotten the opposition from utd etc. You will appreciate why I place no weight on the views of Man Utd fans when it comes to the question of what’s good for the EFL and EFL club. That’s a side issue. I care about my club and clubs in the same boat. I believe the super league needs to happen for clubs like us to have a viable future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Andy b said: Fundamentally disagree. I haven’t forgotten the opposition from utd etc. You will appreciate why I place no weight on the views of Man Utd fans when it comes to the question of what’s good for the EFL and EFL club. That’s a side issue. I care about my club and clubs in the same boat. I believe the super league needs to happen for clubs like us to have a viable future It's one thing to hive off a select number of clubs into a "super" league and at least (as the financially strapped Club Med clubs are belatedly suggesting) allow promotion/relegation between there and domestic leagues. That at least would then be a nod in the direction of meritocracy. But even in its modified version, the football world (as opposed to fat cat owners) would rightly reject it. Do you seriously think Liverpool fans would ever enjoy thrashing, say, Barcelona as much as they did United at the weekend? Not a chance. The views of United fans on the E"S"L carry as much weight on the future of football as those of any club. You can't argue that you don't care whether or not their club is pitched against their will into a meaningless money-making snore fest on the one hand, and rage against the cloth-eared, unaccountable owners of our club on the other. The future of the game at all levels is either about fans' views being heard and taken into account, or it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 18 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: It's one thing to hive off a select number of clubs into a "super" league and at least (as the financially strapped Club Med clubs are belatedly suggesting) allow promotion/relegation between there and domestic leagues. That at least would then be a nod in the direction of meritocracy. But even in its modified version, the football world (as opposed to fat cat owners) would rightly reject it. Do you seriously think Liverpool fans would ever enjoy thrashing, say, Barcelona as much as they did United at the weekend? Not a chance. The views of United fans on the E"S"L carry as much weight on the future of football as those of any club. You can't argue that you don't care whether or not their club is pitched against their will into a meaningless money-making snore fest on the one hand, and rage against the cloth-eared, unaccountable owners of our club on the other. The future of the game at all levels is either about fans' views being heard and taken into account, or it isn't. You make a good point in referring to ‘the game’. our shared game exists across thousands of clubs. It excludes the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, Andy b said: You make a good point in referring to ‘the game’. our shared game exists across thousands of clubs. It excludes the top 6. It appears you value the premier league as an entertainment spectacle. You watch it in the pub, take a general interest in it and have a sky subscription. Please don’t take that the wrong way but that being the case, I see why you don’t want the super league. By contrast, i can add up the number of hours of premier league football I watch on a year on two hands. I know sod all about it and very quickly get out of my depth when people to try and engage me in a conversation about it. For that reason, the strength and maintenance of the premier league as a spectacle is of no relevance to me. Further I really don’t see why I should care about what Liverpool fans enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, Andy b said: You make a good point in referring to ‘the game’. our shared game exists across thousands of clubs. It excludes the top 6. Top 6? Does that include Spurs? Leicester? West Ham? Not long ago it certainly included Everton and it didn't include City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Andy b said: Fundamentally disagree. I haven’t forgotten the opposition from utd etc. You will appreciate why I place no weight on the views of Man Utd fans when it comes to the question of what’s good for the EFL and EFL club. That’s a side issue. I care about my club and clubs in the same boat. I believe the super league needs to happen for clubs like us to have a viable future I'm struggling to see any reason why our club would benefit from the creation of a European Super league unless it is a complete disaster and teams switch off from it and maybe start watching us. Why would the creation of European super league benefit Oldham Athletic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 A European Super League would be dependent on TV money. The sponsors are only their because it's on TV. Because there wouldn't be any relegation, fans of it would eventually lose interest and the whole thing would come crashing down. I would hope that the PL and EFL would tell the clubs leaving that there is no way back if it ESL did implode. As for the Bury model. I can't see that working in this country. How many people would be willing to put large amounts of money into a football club and not have control. It may work in Germany because they are used to it and all clubs have to abide by it, but not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, al_bro said: A European Super League would be dependent on TV money. The sponsors are only their because it's on TV. Because there wouldn't be any relegation, fans of it would eventually lose interest and the whole thing would come crashing down. I would hope that the PL and EFL would tell the clubs leaving that there is no way back if it ESL did implode. As for the Bury model. I can't see that working in this country. How many people would be willing to put large amounts of money into a football club and not have control. It may work in Germany because they are used to it and all clubs have to abide by it, but not here. What is the model that does work then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, Andy b said: What is the model that does work then? I don't know, but the present one works for many clubs and not for others. A proper test of ownership by the EFL would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 18 minutes ago, al_bro said: I don't know, but the present one works for many clubs and not for others. A proper test of ownership by the EFL would be a start. The vast majority of problem owners are only seen to be so with the benefit of hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Andy b said: It appears you value the premier league as an entertainment spectacle. You watch it in the pub, take a general interest in it and have a sky subscription. Please don’t take that the wrong way but that being the case, I see why you don’t want the super league. By contrast, i can add up the number of hours of premier league football I watch on a year on two hands. I know sod all about it and very quickly get out of my depth when people to try and engage me in a conversation about it. Laughed when I read this.... simply because it's almost a perfect description of my stance too (except I can count the hours I`ve watched Prem football in a year on the fingers of one hand - not two). Prem football bores me half to death - honestly. The money involved I find abborhent and I take with a pinch of salt those spoilt Premiership rich kids trying to dictate my morals or politics to me (never subscribed to Sky and never will). Trouble is, we live in a world (or certainly a country) where people are like bloody sheep. The number of "sheeple" glued to big screen tv's in crappy pubs who delude themselves they are "supporters" is astonishing. Problem is, their little lambs follow the sheep - and football at clubs like ours slowly dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Laughed when I read this.... simply because it's almost a perfect description of my stance too (except I can count the hours I`ve watched Prem football in a year on the fingers of one hand - not two). Prem football bores me half to death - honestly. The money involved I find abborhent and I take with a pinch of salt those spoilt Premiership rich kids trying to dictate my morals or politics to me (never subscribed to Sky and never will). Trouble is, we live in a world (or certainly a country) where people are like bloody sheep. The number of "sheeple" glued to big screen tv's in crappy pubs who delude themselves they are "supporters" is astonishing. Problem is, their little lambs follow the sheep - and football at clubs like ours slowly dies. I sit freezing my bollocks off every two weeks at Latics I have sky and thoroughly enjoyed watching United get spanked all over the park on Sunday - I wasn’t in a crappy pub but in the comfort of my own home not everything is binary and as you won’t have spoilt rich kids dictate politics to you (cos that was Rashfords aim at getting hungry kids fed I’m sure) I won’t have someone say I’m killing football by having a tv dish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: I sit freezing my bollocks off every two weeks at Latics I have sky and thoroughly enjoyed watching United get spanked all over the park on Sunday - I wasn’t in a crappy pub but in the comfort of my own home not everything is binary and as you won’t have spoilt rich kids dictate politics to you (cos that was Rashfords aim at getting hungry kids fed I’m sure) I won’t have someone say I’m killing football by having a tv dish Yeh fair do's point taken. I can sometimes be guilty of being too black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I think a lot of you seriously underestimate the draw of watching the very best footballers in the world and the obscene amounts of money tv and streaming media companies are prepared to pay to be part of it The TV Companies virtually fund English Football already and increasingly the European Clubs have become more reliant on UEFA Competition sponsors funding If the 'top 12' or so European Clubs can provide a financially self rewarding proposal to the 'inner circle' of owners, a new competition will be formed and will most certainly be able to attract sponsorship funding The number of supporters actually attending a match actually isn't as high as you might think, most weekends around the 750,000 mark Adopting your local town team for life is very much a thing of the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 The point still remains that no relegation or promotion destroys the concept of competition and playing the same seven or eight clubs several times a season would be too boring, even for United fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 55 minutes ago, tGWB said: I think a lot of you seriously underestimate the draw of watching the very best footballers in the world and the obscene amounts of money tv and streaming media companies are prepared to pay to be part of it The TV Companies virtually fund English Football already and increasingly the European Clubs have become more reliant on UEFA Competition sponsors funding If the 'top 12' or so European Clubs can provide a financially self rewarding proposal to the 'inner circle' of owners, a new competition will be formed and will most certainly be able to attract sponsorship funding The number of supporters actually attending a match actually isn't as high as you might think, most weekends around the 750,000 mark Adopting your local town team for life is very much a thing of the past Maybe so but unattractive to TV if the grounds aren't full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave_Og said: Maybe so but unattractive to TV if the grounds aren't full The top PL sides could significantly reduce ticket prices already if they chose to and still thrive financially The new generation of football fan chooses to watch football on a screen not attend games week in week out so the clubs will need to reduce ticket prices to get bums on seats in their stadiums Youre right, empty stadiums spoil the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, tGWB said: Youre right, empty stadiums spoil the game Football is not the same game in an empty stadium. It's like drinking at home as opposed to drinking at the pub. I much prefer drinking at the pub because of the social aspect etc. However, it's scary how many people now drink at home. They complain about the price of beer in pubs - yet these same people happily pay £12 for a "gourmet burger" or £8 for a fish finger butty (as long as it's on the "signature menu" of course. I think you'll find much of life is now dictated by how easily sheeple are manipulated by marketing rather than anything else. There remains the enlightened few that are not susceptible to it. Before you rush to your keyboards (more probably the latest smartphone!).... stop.... think... and have a good look around you.... 90% have become slaves to marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Bizarre that people would take an interest in something and yet not enjoy watching the best at it showcase their skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, tGWB said: The top PL sides could significantly reduce ticket prices already if they chose to and still thrive financially The new generation of football fan chooses to watch football on a screen not attend games week in week out so the clubs will need to reduce ticket prices to get bums on seats in their stadiums Youre right, empty stadiums spoil the game But that would be a bad idea to have to reduce ticket prices. The top clubs United and Arsenal take in over £100million a season in match day revenue why would they want to wave that goodbye to that. I also disagree the new generation want to watch they do even Latics its alot more expensive these days. A load of glorified friendlies would see interest diminish the champions league and the Premier league rely on drama and a level of unpredictability you take that away and the interest will drop from fans and sponsors and TV companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 44 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Football is not the same game in an empty stadium. It's like drinking at home as opposed to drinking at the pub. I much prefer drinking at the pub because of the social aspect etc. However, it's scary how many people now drink at home. They complain about the price of beer in pubs - yet these same people happily pay £12 for a "gourmet burger" or £8 for a fish finger butty (as long as it's on the "signature menu" of course. I think you'll find much of life is now dictated by how easily sheeple are manipulated by marketing rather than anything else. There remains the enlightened few that are not susceptible to it. Before you rush to your keyboards (more probably the latest smartphone!).... stop.... think... and have a good look around you.... 90% have become slaves to marketing. You lost me when you used the word "Sheeple" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: But that would be a bad idea to have to reduce ticket prices. The top clubs United and Arsenal take in over £100million in match day revenue you want to wave that goodbye, and I disagree the new generation want to watch they do even Latics its alot more expensive these days. A load of glorified friendlies would see interest diminish the champions league and the Premier league rely on drama and a level of unpredictability you take that away and the interest will drop from fans and sponsors and TV companies. My point wasnt that football fans wouldnt go to stadiums, more that the traditional week in week out type of supporter is very much in decline and that football clubs previous reliance on attendances is less and theyre more reliant on tv monies etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Bizarre that people would take an interest in something and yet not enjoy watching the best at it showcase their skills. agree bonkers really a football fan not naturally being drawn to watch the very best in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, wiseowl said: 90% have become slaves to marketing. How did you measure that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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