BPAS PODCAST: 5th Sept '22, S3E5: Reality Check

[unsworth blue]

3 minutes ago, the_mighty_bosh said:

 

Great post and I fully agree.

 

100% agree 

[unsworth blue]

40 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Have to say the general Shez chat pretty much echoes my own thoughts on the situation (especially what @lookersstandandy said). I was initially an advocate for more time for Shez but the more that comes out about the lack of prep etc and the lack of improvement on the pitch it's pretty self evident that to move forward we do need a change.  However, I'd like us to look long term for an appointment - decide on what we want to do in terms of bringing youth through, style of play etc and bring in someone who will be on board for the full project. That way should that person leave in time we can recruit someone to follow the same ethos. So I'm still an advocate for time but purely for putting in place the right structure and recruitment process for the next manager/coach rather than sacking immediately off the back of a bad run.

 

Everything we've done as a club has been short term thinking for so long now, we need to get out of that mindset and build something long lasting.  Ultimately we aren't realistically in a position to challenge for the title even if we brought someone new in now, but taking the time to get it right could lead to an upturn in form and play off push later in the season.

 

 

sums it up perfectly for me - short termism has got Latics precisely nowhere positive over last 20 years and we cannot afford to just keeping hiring and firing willy-nilly. Shez was recruited under previous regime to try and succeed short term and save our league status, sadly that failed and then he was asked to stay on and try and get Latics back at first time of asking. Whether successful or not, no real process of how to build a club fit for 2023 and beyond. 

 

Can't think of any clubs who achieve(d) success for more than a fleeting moment where they turnover managers at least once a season.  

[TheBigDog]

29 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

we cannot afford to just keeping hiring and firing willy-nilly

Hasn’t he just signed for Forest?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* sorry, that’s Willy Boly…

[Steve_R]

I agree with a lot of what nzlatic says, although I think Shez deserves a full season, as indeed that should be the minimum for any manager. The long term view though, where a manager with a clear focus in mind to set a culture in place for the whole paying side, from the young kids through to the first team is the way we need to go.

 

I'm not suggesting the moneyball method that Brentford use, but the way the have chosen managers and players, where they are always looking one step ahead, is something we should be looking to. You can guarantee that they will already be lining up Ivan Toney's replacement for when they receive a bid to good to turn down.

 

No doubt though, if we went down this route, and it wasn't immediately working after a few games, the calls would come for the manager to be shown the door and to get an old head in who 'knows the division'

[deyres42]

A full season of Sheridan and Wright means a relegation battle. That can't be allowed to happen.

[HarryBosch]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

Have to say the general Shez chat pretty much echoes my own thoughts on the situation (especially what @lookersstandandy said). I was initially an advocate for more time for Shez but the more that comes out about the lack of prep etc and the lack of improvement on the pitch it's pretty self evident that to move forward we do need a change. 

 

 

I'm sure there's been talk of Shez's "lack of prep" everytime he's managed us. 

Only when results have started to go badly though.

 

Whenever he's doing well he's lauded for "keeping it simple" or words to that effect. 

[Dave_Og]

5 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

I'm sure there's been talk of Shez's "lack of prep" everytime he's managed us. 

Only when results have started to go badly though.

 

Whenever he's doing well he's lauded for "keeping it simple" or words to that effect. 

 

Well, 'it's a results business' - if anyone would like to point to one that isn't.....

[nzlatic]

54 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

I'm sure there's been talk of Shez's "lack of prep" everytime he's managed us. 

Only when results have started to go badly though.

 

Whenever he's doing well he's lauded for "keeping it simple" or words to that effect. 

I hadn't heard it before.  I knew he was "old school" but I had no idea he does little or nothing on tactics or opposition scouting. I think there's an argument to say it's worked for him in the past because he's either had a squad of great players or when he's come into a relegation battle and taken the pressure off a low squad by "keeping it simple".  

 

Opposition prep should be as basic as shooting practice or goalkeeper drills. It's absolutely essential. 

[HarryBosch]

17 hours ago, nzlatic said:

I hadn't heard it before.  I knew he was "old school" but I had no idea he does little or nothing on tactics or opposition scouting. I think there's an argument to say it's worked for him in the past because he's either had a squad of great players or when he's come into a relegation battle and taken the pressure off a low squad by "keeping it simple".  

 

Opposition prep should be as basic as shooting practice or goalkeeper drills. It's absolutely essential. 

 

Even odder when he's signed Hogan, Maynard, Angol etc.... who "know the league".

You'd assume part of the rationale for this would be impart knowledge of the opposition, especially Hogan

[Wardie]

“If you can't explain it to a six year old football player, you don't understand it yourself.”
― Albert Einstein, modified by me.

 

"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results"

― accredited to Albert Einstein but probably not by him.

 

They mention the 6000+ fans at the game, which is amazing for non-league and, unfortunately, we all know that will not be maintained unless the performances and  results on the pitch show signs of consistent development and improvement. Sheridan is showing strong signs he is not the man for the job.

[GlossopLatic]

11 minutes ago, Wardie said:

“If you can't explain it to a six year old football player, you don't understand it yourself.”
― Albert Einstein, modified by me.

 

"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results"

― accredited to Albert Einstein but probably not by him.

 

They mention the 6000+ fans at the game, which is amazing for non-league and, unfortunately, we all know that will not be maintained unless the performances and  results on the pitch show signs of consistent development and improvement. Sheridan is showing strong signs he is not the man for the job.

 

What the returning fans show is that no matter how bad things have been at Boundary Park, the public will come down if they feel there is something going on.

 

In the short term if going through the transition of getting our shit fully together might mean some of the fans who have come back may lose abit of enthusiasm and drift away. I certainly don't think we will maintain the 7k average we have done so far this season. But once our shit is fully together, then they will return and probably bring friends along aswell.

 

We shouldn't worry about attendances dropping in the short term aslong as we have a plan to build the club up and stick to that process.

[Wardie]

1 minute ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

What the returning fans show is that no matter how bad things have been at Boundary Park the public will come down if they feel their is something going on.

 

In the short term if going through the transition of getting our shit fully together might mean some of the fans who have come back may lose abit of enthusiasm abd drift away I certainly don't think we will maintain the 7k average we have done so far this season. But once our shit is fully together then they will return and probably bring friends along aswell.

I agree. People will always rise to an occasion and a spectacle, such as the first home game razzmatazz after the takeover and local away-days. I'm not expecting a quick fix to the club's situation and instant promotion, it's ludicrous to do so but I am not feeling any confidence in the product on the pitch and that it will improve. It's not good sense to keep changing managers, I've had enough of it recently but I am banging my head against a wall trying to get over the fear of another relegation and the club completely losing the impetus it has gained from the new ownership.

I totally agree with the podcast that an outline of a plan could be released by the club with some contingencies in place if goals are not met or for unexpected occurrences. Again, they need time, so it's just a matter of patience I suppose.

[mcfluff1985]

28 minutes ago, Wardie said:

I agree. People will always rise to an occasion and a spectacle, such as the first home game razzmatazz after the takeover and local away-days. I'm not expecting a quick fix to the club's situation and instant promotion, it's ludicrous to do so but I am not feeling any confidence in the product on the pitch and that it will improve. It's not good sense to keep changing managers, I've had enough of it recently but I am banging my head against a wall trying to get over the fear of another relegation and the club completely losing the impetus it has gained from the new ownership.

I totally agree with the podcast that an outline of a plan could be released by the club with some contingencies in place if goals are not met or for unexpected occurrences. Again, they need time, so it's just a matter of patience I suppose.

There were demands for a 5 year plan when AL took over...

[disjointed]

36 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

There were demands for a 5 year plan when AL took over...

I think it was just a plan we were after. Turns out there wasn't one. 

[mcfluff1985]

 

1 hour ago, disjointed said:

I think it was just a plan we were after. Turns out there wasn't one. 

They do need a plan though for the football side as well.

 

Someone mentioned somewhere about style of play and everything. It's what will create consistency.

 

Director of football or a scouting team looking for manager and players that can fit a certain way of going about things.

 

Needs to go through the youths to first team

[Monty Burns]

ooooh its Todd's go is it? do l want to listen to this or not

[Monty Burns]

8 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

They always warm up with the four doing the drill and then play 5 at the back, noticed it every game I’ve been to. 

this is correct and rather reassuring to my mind that other have seen this!!

[Monty Burns]

@longtimeblue should buy some new boots and have one last blast he should have been the none Ginger version of Chris Taylor l only seen him once and even that was only 6aside but fuckinell what a player

[disjointed]

16 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

 

They do need a plan though for the football side as well.

 

Someone mentioned somewhere about style of play and everything. It's what will create consistency.

 

Director of football or a scouting team looking for manager and players that can fit a certain way of going about things.

 

Needs to go through the youths to first team

Of course they need a plan, I have much more confidence in this board to have one. I think the only person to mention a 5 year plan was Abdallah. 

[Worcester Owl]

7 hours ago, unsworth blue said:

 

sums it up perfectly for me - short termism has got Latics precisely nowhere positive over last 20 years and we cannot afford to just keeping hiring and firing willy-nilly. Shez was recruited under previous regime to try and succeed short term and save our league status, sadly that failed and then he was asked to stay on and try and get Latics back at first time of asking. Whether successful or not, no real process of how to build a club fit for 2023 and beyond. 

 

Can't think of any clubs who achieve(d) success for more than a fleeting moment where they turnover managers at least once a season.  

The pedant in me can’t help saying Chelsea have managed it in the past, but it’s not a model that appeals to me, especially at our level.

[Wardie]

41 minutes ago, disjointed said:

Of course they need a plan, I have much more confidence in this board to have one. I think the only person to mention a 5 year plan was Abdallah. 

He did well, he fucked it up in four rather than five.
That was the plan, wasn't it?

[GlossopLatic]

1 hour ago, disjointed said:

Of course they need a plan, I have much more confidence in this board to have one. I think the only person to mention a 5 year plan was Abdallah. 

 

I think Chris Moore had a 5 year plan to take us to the premier league from what is now league 1 he nearly liquidated us. Corney Blitz and Gazal had a 5 year plan it was to redevelop Boundary Park and get us to the Championship. 14 years later we had 1 new stand which we didn't own and they sold us while in League 1 about to ne relegated and near bankruptcy. Abdallah's 5 year plan, well we don't need reminding how that turned out.

 

Mike Tyson once famously said everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face. This doesn't mean plans are bad thing you just have to be prepared to be punched in the face. Just hope that when the plan is revealed they can execute it despite the fact they might get a number of punches in the face along the way. From things that knowone could imagine.

[Monty Burns]

was good that. couldnt agree more on the 'give him time' vibe and the Royle/Frizzell point. Todd's nearly got a Manc accent these days sounds like he's from Newt Neef on't radio doesn't he

[League one forever]

10 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

The pedant in me can’t help saying Chelsea have managed it in the past, but it’s not a model that appeals to me, especially at our level.

And Watford. . 
 

I’ve always had a pragmatic view on continuity, it’s fine as long as there is gradual and tangible progress. But continuity despite poor performances is nonsensical to me. 

[Dave_Og]

13 minutes ago, League one forever said:

And Watford. . 
 

I’ve always had a pragmatic view on continuity, it’s fine as long as there is gradual and tangible progress. But continuity despite poor performances is nonsensical to me. 

 

Got to agree but change is pointless unless it's considered change.