Sheridan To Depart Latics

[GlossopLatic]

56 minutes ago, Wardie said:

I'm not sure what you are getting at but the bottom line for me, at least, was the results on the pitch and the apparent lack of preparation and tactics. I believe Sheridan said as much himself that his management style is old fashioned. 

 

Instead of cryptic one-liners, why don't you tell me what the problem is or what you believe it to be? I will respect your opinion and that you may be right and I may proved to be wrong.

 

The problem is no manager succeeds here they are all set up to fail. I'm pretty sure every single one of the managers I've seen over the past 32 year has been accused of playing the wrong tactics and the wrong players "square pegs in round holes" Every experienced manager we sacked was a dinosaur. Every young manager was too inexperienced.

 

Do you know who is the most successful manager in the history of the football league in terms of winning promotions?

 

Answer Neil Warnock he won 8 Yet when he was here he got nowhere promotion. He got called a tactical dinosaur while he was here. After he left he won 4 Promotions not to the Championship but to the premier league. Was that down his "tactics" 

 

We've had 25 Managers since Joe Royle non of them have got promoted they all did things a differently they can't all be wrong. 

 

We have not had an environment or a culture at the Club geared towards promotion for the vast majority of that time and we still don't now.

 

I'd like to think that the Rothwells and Royles already know this but if they are serious about the project then need to think about the changes they need to make for the football side of the business because if not they will just be setting up the next manager to fail. I'm not just saying give the manager money to spend on players or just give him time. I'm talking about how we recruit how we coach the players the transition from academy to the 1st team the lot because everything at the club at the moment is flawed.

 

We need to set the next Manager upto succeed if we dont it will be mid table mediocrity and relegation battles and changing manager every 6/12/18 months. Hoping that the next one has some magic tactics.

 

 

 

 

[Inspectormorose.]

Remember listening to an interview with Warnock where he said when he managed us the finances were that bad he had to ask the chairman if he could make a cup of tea. Obviously some licence may have been taken with his view but it suggests either he was covering his back or he wasn't dealt a full hand to play with as manager.

[Mr Banks, Zone 3]

5 minutes ago, Inspectormorose. said:

Remember listening to an interview with Warnock where he said when he managed us the finances were that bad he had to ask the chairman if he could make a cup of tea. Obviously some licence may have been taken with his view but it suggests either he was covering his back or he wasn't dealt a full hand to play with as manager.

I don't recall him being with us very long, he came in towards the end of 1996-97 to try to keep us up and failed, then left not long into 1997-98. I can't remember if he was sacked or just walked, but I do seem to recall he insisted on us doing pre-season training in the West Country in 1997 because he'd just bought a house down there and couldn't be arsed travelling up here. 

[Wardie]

11 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

The problem is no manager succeeds here they are all set up to fail. I'm pretty sure every single one of the managers I've seen over the past 32 year has been accused of playing the wrong tactics and the wrong players "square pegs in round holes" Every experienced manager we sacked was a dinosaur. Every young manager was too inexperienced.

 

Do you know who is the most successful manager in the history of the football league in terms of winning promotions?

 

Answer Neil Warnock he won 8 Yet when he was here he got nowhere promotion. He got called a tactical dinosaur while he was here. After he left he won 4 Promotions not to the Championship but to the premier league. Was that down his "tactics" 

 

We've had 25 Managers since Joe Royle non of them have got promoted they all did things a differently they can't all be wrong. 

 

We have not had an environment or a culture at the Club geared towards promotion for the vast majority of that time and we still don't now.

 

I'd like to think that the Rothwells and Royles already know this but if they are serious about the project then need to think about the changes they need to make for the football side of the business because if not they will just be setting up the next manager to fail. I'm not just saying give the manager money to spend on players or just give him time. I'm talking about how we recruit how we coach the players the transition from academy to the 1st team the lot because everything at the club at the moment is flawed.

 

We need to set the next Manager upto succeed if we dont it will be mid table mediocrity and relegation battles and changing manager every 6/12/18 months. Hoping that the next one has some magic tactics.

 Many thanks for that response and I have to say, your line of thinking is probably spot-on.

 

I do wonder how a club of Latics' stature can get the infrastructure for relative success. I don't think the club will ever reach the lofty heights of top-flight football again and I personally would be happy if they could compete against the likes of Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Birmingham etc. with the occasional cup run. It's going to take years of the right set-up, investment and continuity on and off the pitch.

In my mind, Sheridan was an attempt at a quick-fix and not the right man to take things forward. I was actually quite surprised and angry when Kewell was sacked and feel the team would be in a much better position, playing-wise, than now and probably not relegated.

The two clowns certainly fucked the club up, fingers crossed the new regime has more substance and nous than the previous incumbents.

[GlossopLatic]

5 minutes ago, Wardie said:

 Many thanks for that response and I have to say, your line of thinking is probably spot-on.

 

I do wonder how a club of Latics' stature can get the infrastructure for relative success. I don't think the club will ever reach the lofty heights of top-flight football again and I personally would be happy if they could compete against the likes of Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Birmingham etc. with the occasional cup run. It's going to take years of the right set-up, investment and continuity on and off the pitch.

In my mind, Sheridan was an attempt at a quick-fix and not the right man to take things forward. I was actually quite surprised and angry when Kewell was sacked and feel the team would be in a much better position, playing-wise, than now and probably not relegated.

The two clowns certainly fucked the club up, fingers crossed the new regime has more substance and nous than the previous incumbents.

 

Their are plenty of examples clubs who have had comparative sucess on limited budgets. I'd look at the likes of Luton Brentford possibly Rotherham aswell. Brentford particularly have had some good financial backing but their are plenty of lessons we can still learn from clubs like that interms of maximising resources.

[Wardie]

3 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Their are plenty of examples clubs who have had comparative sucess on limited budgets. I'd look at the likes of Luton Brentford possibly Rotherham aswell. Brentford particularly have had some good financial backing but their are plenty of lessons we can still learn from clubs like that interms of maximising resources.

True, so let's hope somebody at the club has a business model in mind, lined up and ready to go. I also feel this moment - or when the new manager is named - is an ideal time to reveal what the plan is and how it is going to be implemented. Or am I clutching at straws?

[GlossopLatic]

12 minutes ago, Wardie said:

True, so let's hope somebody at the club has a business model in mind, lined up and ready to go. I also feel this moment - or when the new manager is named - is an ideal time to reveal what the plan is and how it is going to be implemented. Or am I clutching at straws?

 

Not at all it would seem pretty sensible although how much of that plan they want to reveal might be up to them some stuff should stay within the club. I just want them to have one in place Id like to think we will start to see the first green shoots of progress before the end of this season.

 

I just hope people realise that the problems here go way beyond formations if Jack Stobbs plays right wing or how much game time Harry Vaughan gets.

[peanuts2]

Honour shez by naming the new fans bar after him "sheridans" just no charity race nights

[sjk2008]

5 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Not really when you have seen 26 different managers in the last 32 years.

 

Ofcourse a good manager can make an impact but if nothingelse changes then within the next 12 months we will be looking for a new one because we will keep losing matches abd we will have to sack them or he will performed a miracle and probably have been poached by another club.

 

 

So we just stick with a bloke who isn’t cut out for management anymore and carry on watching us get tactically outplayed by part timer?

 

Dont talk bollocks.

[the_mighty_bosh]

As has been said many times in this thread, the club have handled this very well.

 

I'll always be biased towards Shez from him being my favourite player growing up, as well as being one of our most successful managers in the last 25 years (success is definitely relative in our case!  ) and I would've loved to see him succeed in taking us back in the right direction.  However the performances have clearly been getting worse not better and the last two results in particular reflected this.

 

Shez deserves a final positive and respectful send off from us fans for everything he's done for the club, so well done to the ownership for giving him this.

 

Enjoy retirement Shez, here's to you.

[GlossopLatic]

5 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

So we just stick with a bloke who isn’t cut out for management anymore and carry on watching us get tactically outplayed by part timer?

 

Dont talk bollocks.

 

I've gone into more detail on other posts what we need to do.

 

But if you think it's just a change of manager  and a change of "Tactics" that solves this then you've learned nothing over last how many years you've been supporting the club. Because it goes way beyond that.

[Lee Sinnott]

8 hours ago, Inspectormorose. said:

Remember listening to an interview with Warnock where he said when he managed us the finances were that bad he had to ask the chairman if he could make a cup of tea. Obviously some licence may have been taken with his view but it suggests either he was covering his back or he wasn't dealt a full hand to play with as manager.

Warnock also had the huge shadow of Andy Ritchie hanging over him. It was the worst kept secret around that Warnock was just a stop gap before Ritchie got the gig...

[longtimeblue]

9 hours ago, philwhite said:

Bye Bye  

Great player

Shite manager.

Can picture the scene against Eastleigh with all the fans that clamoured to get him back and then wanted shut of him singing his name on Saturday

 

It was right to bring him back and it's right for him to go. 

[Lee Sinnott]

25 minutes ago, longtimeblue said:

 

It was right to bring him back and it's right for him to go.

Should have gone at the end of last season. We are now playing catch up for this season...

[latics22]

9 hours ago, Wardie said:

 Many thanks for that response and I have to say, your line of thinking is probably spot-on.

 

I do wonder how a club of Latics' stature can get the infrastructure for relative success. I don't think the club will ever reach the lofty heights of top-flight football again and I personally would be happy if they could compete against the likes of Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Birmingham etc. with the occasional cup run. It's going to take years of the right set-up, investment and continuity on and off the pitch.

In my mind, Sheridan was an attempt at a quick-fix and not the right man to take things forward. I was actually quite surprised and angry when Kewell was sacked and feel the team would be in a much better position, playing-wise, than now and probably not relegated.

The two clowns certainly fucked the club up, fingers crossed the new regime has more substance and nous than the previous incumbents.

Be a long time before, if ever we each those dizzy heights. I’d say at least another 3 years to make league 2.

[nzlatic]

43 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Should have gone at the end of last season. We are now playing catch up for this season...

Who would have made that decision and appointed a replacement onto what kind of contract? We were in the middle of a takeover then weren’t we?

[Dave_Og]

45 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Should have gone at the end of last season. We are now playing catch up for this season...

I wonder what would have happened if he had. Who might the Brothers Grimm appointed? Who would have been interested before the takeover was done? 

[Lee Sinnott]

30 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I wonder what would have happened if he had. Who might the Brothers Grimm appointed? Who would have been interested before the takeover was done? 

Probably someone who wouldn't have us down in 16th position in the Vauxhall Conference...

[Lee Sinnott]

33 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Who would have made that decision and appointed a replacement onto what kind of contract? We were in the middle of a takeover then weren’t we?

Well Rothwell said he only made contact with the club on 25th April. Sheri had agreed with previous regime before relegation to stay on...

[Londonboy]

43 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I wonder what would have happened if he had. Who might the Brothers Grimm appointed? Who would have been interested before the takeover was done? 

Fair point Dave. I guess we will never know.

Shez tried and failed. Time to move on.....and quickly 

[deyres42]

3 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I've gone into more detail on other posts what we need to do.

 

But if you think it's just a change of manager  and a change of "Tactics" that solves this then you've learned nothing over last how many years you've been supporting the club. Because it goes way beyond that.

Leicester nearly got relegated, sacked their manager midsummer and won the Premier League less than a year later.

 

Fortunes can turn around quickly in a sport of such fine margins.

[longtimeblue]

1 hour ago, Lee Sinnott said:

Should have gone at the end of last season. We are now playing catch up for this season...

 

Yep. Sadly. Head always said it wouldn't end well but I couldn't begrudge him having a go. I was a bit gutted when he took it on.

[hillside blue]

17 hours ago, daniel said:

Sensible decision, and also I feel a good financial decision. I think it’ll add a few to the attendance as fans wish to bid him farewell. I’m glad he came back, and he’s still one of my all time favourites at the club. 
Enjoy retirement John, you deserve it. 

Let's just hope those lazy sods who he picked as players turn up.

[Steve_R]

12 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

The problem is no manager succeeds here they are all set up to fail. I'm pretty sure every single one of the managers I've seen over the past 32 year has been accused of playing the wrong tactics and the wrong players "square pegs in round holes" Every experienced manager we sacked was a dinosaur. Every young manager was too inexperienced.

 

Do you know who is the most successful manager in the history of the football league in terms of winning promotions?

 

Answer Neil Warnock he won 8 Yet when he was here he got nowhere promotion. He got called a tactical dinosaur while he was here. After he left he won 4 Promotions not to the Championship but to the premier league. Was that down his "tactics" 

 

We've had 25 Managers since Joe Royle non of them have got promoted they all did things a differently they can't all be wrong. 

 

We have not had an environment or a culture at the Club geared towards promotion for the vast majority of that time and we still don't now.

 

I'd like to think that the Rothwells and Royles already know this but if they are serious about the project then need to think about the changes they need to make for the football side of the business because if not they will just be setting up the next manager to fail. I'm not just saying give the manager money to spend on players or just give him time. I'm talking about how we recruit how we coach the players the transition from academy to the 1st team the lot because everything at the club at the moment is flawed.

 

We need to set the next Manager upto succeed if we dont it will be mid table mediocrity and relegation battles and changing manager every 6/12/18 months. Hoping that the next one has some magic tactics.

 

 

 

 

This is spot on.For years we've just gone for short term fixes, without putting anything in place to help them succeed. The only one who looked remotely like doing so in the last 15 years or so was Johnson, and he was off as soon as saw a better offer without actually achieving anything here.

The whole structure of the club needs to change, and hopefully the Rothwell's can see that and are on with doing it. Running a football club is totally different than running any other business though. It's the short term that's only thing anyone looks at, as in how the first team is doing.

Added to that is the fact that we are the most success starved fans in the country, with many having knowing nothing but relegation scraps in their time supporting us. This just increases the impatience, and there's not much sign of improvement after 10 games or so, then the calls for Unsworth's (or whoever it is)head will be in full swing, as he's tactically inept, can't motivate the players etc.

Unless the whole way the club is run changes it will just continue.

At least now with the new ownership we have hope that things will change.

[nzlatic]

6 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

This is spot on.For years we've just gone for short term fixes, without putting anything in place to help them succeed. The only one who looked remotely like doing so in the last 15 years or so was Johnson, and he was off as soon as saw a better offer without actually achieving anything here.

 

I think this bit is really important. I don't want us to be a stepping stone for someone to come in, get us around the play offs to prove their worth then leave for a job higher up. We need someone to buy into the long term which needs us to be developing off the field, improving supply of academy players, training facilities and 1st team squad too.