Unsworth

[True Tic]

11 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Wow if he's getting more than Norwood my eyes are starting to water.

Don’t know what Norwood is on but it’s not going to be peanuts. 
ive looked Tunnicliffe up and he’s a bit of a journey man but all at a higher level. No idea what he’s like . 

[rudemedic]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:37 PM, Londonboy said:

I'm always pretty chilled out thanks...and thanks for your concern.

 

You actually make some valid points but also some pretty tame/flakey ones.

 

So just so we are clear, where would YOU be happy for us to be sitting points wise by the end of September? As you rightly say are still 2nd favourites to go up and expectation is high everywhere it seems...(13 games in and nearly 30% into the season)? 

 

I'd genuinely be interested to get your view on what you think would be a fair return.

 

In the jobs I've had, as a sales director for some of the biggest global consumer electronic business', if I had the complete backing of the organisation, and I constantly achieved below their minimum expectation, plus I'd rubbed my team and our customers up the wrong way, with what seemed like a completely scattergun and flawed approach and a non approachable manner I'd be on very thin ice!

I'd either have been asked to leave already or been told to present a revised plan, to hit specific short term targets and a longer term goal. 

Specifics are key in any performance management scenario, with regular benchmarking and review, and if things improve and turn around that's all everyone really wants. If it doesn't your usually gone!

 

After 50 plus games under Unsworth I'd hope our board are taking a similar view. 

Just because you asked.

 

I don't know where I'd be happy after 13 games because I don't know if we will have played the 12/13 best teams, the 12/13 worst teams, or something in the middle. Given we've played Chesterfield I don't think we will have played the 13 worst teams. 

 

After 23 games, half the season, you usually have played everyone once* and you have a much better idea of how we will do. Plus it will probably even out in terms of playing teams at the right time, as playing Southend first up was probably the worst time to play them. Coincidentally it may have also been the best time to play us, with Norwood (+Dickenson) having been at the club for less than a week (possibly only slightly more than a day) and our injuries in midfield.

 

At 23 games I would want 35 points. As 70 points usually gets you in the playoffs and I expect us to be better in the second half of the season (we got 40 points from the last 23 games last year). The playoffs is much of a muchness as far as I'm concerned and there is not much difference between 2nd and 7th.

 

I expect our first quarter to be our worst quarter in terms of points as our squad depth will prove very useful. Whereas other teams will probably fade if they have injuries. For example, Nuttall / Fondop / Reid and Willoughby all probably play in every other side that plays 2 forwards (apart from Chesterfield, where they'd probably all get on the bench).

 

If we don't look like getting 30 points from 23 games (as we got 40 points from the last 23 games last season) then I can see Unsworth not being in charge for the last 23 games. I think it's fairly obvious that getting into the playoffs is the minimum requirement this year (it isn't what we should be aiming for). If we really don't look like getting into the playoffs or we end up outside them at the end of the season then then I fully expect Oldham to not be managed by David Unsworth come August 24.

 

 

*Although given the Christmas/New Year double header and us playing Borehamwood in early December and this week, we probably wont.

 

TLDR: 13 games isn't long enough, 23 games is, want at least 30 points at 23 games but under 35 points and Unsworth is under threat. Not making the playoffs this season and I'd think Unsworth is gone. Expect us to be better in 2nd half of season.

[Ritchierich]

2 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Just because you asked.

 

I don't know where I'd be happy after 13 games because I don't know if we will have played the 12/13 best teams, the 12/13 worst teams, or something in the middle. Given we've played Chesterfield I don't think we will have played the 13 worst teams. 

 

After 23 games, half the season, you usually have played everyone once* and you have a much better idea of how we will do. Plus it will probably even out in terms of playing teams at the right time, as playing Southend first up was probably the worst time to play them. Coincidentally it may have also been the best time to play us, with Norwood (+Dickenson) having been at the club for less than a week (possibly only slightly more than a day) and our injuries in midfield.

 

At 23 games I would want 35 points. As 70 points usually gets you in the playoffs and I expect us to be better in the second half of the season (we got 40 points from the last 23 games last year). The playoffs is much of a muchness as far as I'm concerned and there is not much difference between 2nd and 7th.

 

I expect our first quarter to be our worst quarter in terms of points as our squad depth will prove very useful. Whereas other teams will probably fade if they have injuries. For example, Nuttall / Fondop / Reid and Willoughby all probably play in every other side that plays 2 forwards (apart from Chesterfield, where they'd probably all get on the bench).

 

If we don't look like getting 30 points from 23 games (as we got 40 points from the last 23 games last season) then I can see Unsworth not being in charge for the last 23 games. I think it's fairly obvious that getting into the playoffs is the minimum requirement this year (it isn't what we should be aiming for). If we really don't look like getting into the playoffs or we end up outside them at the end of the season then then I fully expect Oldham to not be managed by David Unsworth come August 24.

 

 

*Although given the Christmas/New Year double header and us playing Borehamwood in early December and this week, we probably wont.

 

TLDR: 13 games isn't long enough, 23 games is, want at least 30 points at 23 games but under 35 points and Unsworth is under threat. Not making the playoffs this season and I'd think Unsworth is gone. Expect us to be better in 2nd half of season.

 

That’s pretty sound logic tbf 

 

I am on the Unsworth out side but you make a good point about the number of points at the midway point but I think it will take something like us being in or close to the relegation zone for the Board to act

[Littlemoor Lad]

2 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Just because you asked.

 

I don't know where I'd be happy after 13 games because I don't know if we will have played the 12/13 best teams, the 12/13 worst teams, or something in the middle. Given we've played Chesterfield I don't think we will have played the 13 worst teams. 

 

After 23 games, half the season, you usually have played everyone once* and you have a much better idea of how we will do. Plus it will probably even out in terms of playing teams at the right time, as playing Southend first up was probably the worst time to play them. Coincidentally it may have also been the best time to play us, with Norwood (+Dickenson) having been at the club for less than a week (possibly only slightly more than a day) and our injuries in midfield.

 

At 23 games I would want 35 points. As 70 points usually gets you in the playoffs and I expect us to be better in the second half of the season (we got 40 points from the last 23 games last year). The playoffs is much of a muchness as far as I'm concerned and there is not much difference between 2nd and 7th.

 

I expect our first quarter to be our worst quarter in terms of points as our squad depth will prove very useful. Whereas other teams will probably fade if they have injuries. For example, Nuttall / Fondop / Reid and Willoughby all probably play in every other side that plays 2 forwards (apart from Chesterfield, where they'd probably all get on the bench).

 

If we don't look like getting 30 points from 23 games (as we got 40 points from the last 23 games last season) then I can see Unsworth not being in charge for the last 23 games. I think it's fairly obvious that getting into the playoffs is the minimum requirement this year (it isn't what we should be aiming for). If we really don't look like getting into the playoffs or we end up outside them at the end of the season then then I fully expect Oldham to not be managed by David Unsworth come August 24.

 

 

*Although given the Christmas/New Year double header and us playing Borehamwood in early December and this week, we probably wont.

 

TLDR: 13 games isn't long enough, 23 games is, want at least 30 points at 23 games but under 35 points and Unsworth is under threat. Not making the playoffs this season and I'd think Unsworth is gone. Expect us to be better in 2nd half of season.

An extremely good post and I find myself nodding in approval at your logic,

I don't think it'll take that many game's to know if we have or haven't got what it takes to be challenging? Saturday and Monday should offer up more insights 

 

[Londonboy]

16 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Just because you asked.

 

I don't know where I'd be happy after 13 games because I don't know if we will have played the 12/13 best teams, the 12/13 worst teams, or something in the middle. Given we've played Chesterfield I don't think we will have played the 13 worst teams. 

 

After 23 games, half the season, you usually have played everyone once* and you have a much better idea of how we will do. Plus it will probably even out in terms of playing teams at the right time, as playing Southend first up was probably the worst time to play them. Coincidentally it may have also been the best time to play us, with Norwood (+Dickenson) having been at the club for less than a week (possibly only slightly more than a day) and our injuries in midfield.

 

At 23 games I would want 35 points. As 70 points usually gets you in the playoffs and I expect us to be better in the second half of the season (we got 40 points from the last 23 games last year). The playoffs is much of a muchness as far as I'm concerned and there is not much difference between 2nd and 7th.

 

I expect our first quarter to be our worst quarter in terms of points as our squad depth will prove very useful. Whereas other teams will probably fade if they have injuries. For example, Nuttall / Fondop / Reid and Willoughby all probably play in every other side that plays 2 forwards (apart from Chesterfield, where they'd probably all get on the bench).

 

If we don't look like getting 30 points from 23 games (as we got 40 points from the last 23 games last season) then I can see Unsworth not being in charge for the last 23 games. I think it's fairly obvious that getting into the playoffs is the minimum requirement this year (it isn't what we should be aiming for). If we really don't look like getting into the playoffs or we end up outside them at the end of the season then then I fully expect Oldham to not be managed by David Unsworth come August 24.

 

 

*Although given the Christmas/New Year double header and us playing Borehamwood in early December and this week, we probably wont.

 

TLDR: 13 games isn't long enough, 23 games is, want at least 30 points at 23 games but under 35 points and Unsworth is under threat. Not making the playoffs this season and I'd think Unsworth is gone. Expect us to be better in 2nd half of season.

It's not bad logic in general and if we make the play offs then happy days.

I do think though that 75 points will be needed to get in, with no Wrexham and NC eating up 100 plus points each. 

The year before when Stockport won the league, Chesterfield were 7th on 74 which is more realistic.

So if we get to 35 pts in 23 then repeat last season's form in the last 23 we  probably squeeze in

30 pts won't cut it though as we'd need 45pts at least from 23 games which is a tall order.

This is why we can't afford to let him plod on with his negative tactics and set up...ie in his post match interview I think he said we want clean sheets first, so it's not gonna change....after out investment.

Hence we need to review at the end of September (13 games) and see if he's on track and steadied the ship.

For me anything less than 20 points and the board need to act.

September's fixtures look pretty easy on paper, so no excuses in my book for not getting 4/5 wins.

If we get too far behind the pace, the pressure mounts on the players, manager, fans etc at home games which is not a good place to be in.

I'll be at Boreham Wood on Saturday, and as our away form is absolutely woeful ( we have won 2 out of 10 since the end of Feb against relegated Scunny and Yeovil) I'm not expecting a front foot performance or 3 points.

If we don't start winning more games away from home and showing more of a positive intent we can forget the playoffs.

Rhino mentioned he doesn't want to get into basketball matches, which is part of the problem....

You can play on the front foot without leaving yourself over exposed defensively, which amazingly seems to be unfortunately something he can't grasp. 

Clocks ticking.....

 

[disjointed]

I don't think I like the idea that we will pick up most of our points in the 2nd half of the season much prefer us to be sticking them on the board now. The successful sides don't just turn up for half a season. 

[rudemedic]

1 hour ago, Londonboy said:

It's not bad logic in general and if we make the play offs then happy days.

I do think though that 75 points will be needed to get in, with no Wrexham and NC eating up 100 plus points each. 

The year before when Stockport won the league, Chesterfield were 7th on 74 which is more realistic.

So if we get to 35 pts in 23 then repeat last season's form in the last 23 we  probably squeeze in

30 pts won't cut it though as we'd need 45pts at least from 23 games which is a tall order.

This is why we can't afford to let him plod on with his negative tactics and set up...ie in his post match interview I think he said we want clean sheets first, so it's not gonna change....after out investment.

Hence we need to review at the end of September (13 games) and see if he's on track and steadied the ship.

For me anything less than 20 points and the board need to act.

September's fixtures look pretty easy on paper, so no excuses in my book for not getting 4/5 wins.

If we get too far behind the pace, the pressure mounts on the players, manager, fans etc at home games which is not a good place to be in.

I'll be at Boreham Wood on Saturday, and as our away form is absolutely woeful ( we have won 2 out of 10 since the end of Feb against relegated Scunny and Yeovil) I'm not expecting a front foot performance or 3 points.

If we don't start winning more games away from home and showing more of a positive intent we can forget the playoffs.

Rhino mentioned he doesn't want to get into basketball matches, which is part of the problem....

You can play on the front foot without leaving yourself over exposed defensively, which amazingly seems to be unfortunately something he can't grasp. 

Clocks ticking.....

 

For the record after 13 games last season Barnet had 17 points, 4 points from the playoffs and bottom half of the table but after 23 games they had 40 points and were 5th.

 

That's an example of why arbitrary X number of games is not ideal and it is much preferable to use half the season.

 

You are right about the number of points needed though as I was looking back a little bit further and while 70 points was often enough in previous seasons for 7th there weren't always 24 teams in the division. 75 is much more likely to meet requirements. 

[nzlatic]

6 minutes ago, rudemedic said:

For the record after 13 games last season Barnet had 17 points, 4 points from the playoffs and bottom half of the table but after 23 games they had 40 points and were 5th.

 

That's an example of why arbitrary X number of games is not ideal and it is much preferable to use half the season.

 

You are right about the number of points needed though as I was looking back a little bit further and while 70 points was often enough in previous seasons for 7th there weren't always 24 teams in the division. 75 is much more likely to meet requirements. 

It's also a good reason to not panic about our position relative to Chesterfield after 4 games.  The other teams they've played currently sit 16th, 20th and 23rd. The other 3 teams we've played currently sit 8th, 9th and 18th. 

[Londonboy]

1 hour ago, rudemedic said:

For the record after 13 games last season Barnet had 17 points, 4 points from the playoffs and bottom half of the table but after 23 games they had 40 points and were 5th.

 

That's an example of why arbitrary X number of games is not ideal and it is much preferable to use half the season.

 

You are right about the number of points needed though as I was looking back a little bit further and while 70 points was often enough in previous seasons for 7th there weren't always 24 teams in the division. 75 is much more likely to meet requirements. 

We'll never agree on this one I think so let's just see what happens!

Hopefully we will be doing just fine after 13, 23 and 46 games

 

My biggest criticism of Unsworth which may ultimately be our downfall, is that when I have watched us away from home in the NL, and I've seen about half our games, not in one can I remember us dominating and playing with any freedom.

Even at Dorking last season they pretty much gave the goals to us on a plate and we're by far the better team 1H. 

We picked up only 22 points away from BP last season, scoring 26 goals (5 of which came at Dorking) and have 1 pt from 6 this year with 1 goal, so 23/75point from 25 games, with a total of 27 goals .....sounds fucking horrific doesn't it!

 

If we repeat last seasons tally away we will need 53 ish points from our home games just to make the playoffs.

For context Notts County got 56 home points last season losing 1 game!

Let's be honest we have already lost to Halifax so it seems an unlikely scenario.

 

He's just too defence first minded as an ex defender, and he won't change his spots. 

Let's see what we do at Boreham Wood Saturday. They are hardly gonna rip us apart as they scored only 22 home goals last year and won only 9 from 23 games, so no reason for us to sit back and soak up the pressure?....is there???? 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Londonboy

[TheBigDog]

7 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

He's just too defence first minded as an ex defender, and he won't change his spots. 

Let's see what we do at Boreham Wood Saturday. They are hardly gonna rip us apart as they scored only 22 home goals last year and won only 9 from 23 games, so no reason for us to sit back and soak up the pressure?....is there???? 

This is a huge concern I too have - to a degree,  I can understand the way we set up away from home at Chesterfield.

 

But to adopt the same approach at Borehamwood would not be a smart move - just more grist to the mill for the increasingly large anti Unsworth mob…

[True Tic]

3 hours ago, disjointed said:

I don't think I like the idea that we will pick up most of our points in the 2nd half of the season much prefer us to be sticking them on the board now. The successful sides don't just turn up for half a season. 

Exactly, I understand the need to “gel” the squad etc and the unfortunate injury list, but catching the pack 2nd half of the season shouldn’t be the philosophy this time. Even with our injuries we still in theory have one of the best squads in this league so should be steadily picking up points From the word go .

[Lee Sinnott]

I expect that, given the quality and money spent on our squad, that even with Unsworth we will finish in the playoff positions, but I think a good manager could have us with the title in the bag by Easter...

[rudemedic]

1 hour ago, TheBigDog said:

This is a huge concern I too have - to a degree,  I can understand the way we set up away from home at Chesterfield.

 

But to adopt the same approach at Borehamwood would not be a smart move - just more grist to the mill for the increasingly large anti Unsworth mob…

Just because it is not smart, doesn't mean he won't do it. I was thinking with it being Borehamwood not that many will go. But as last year's game was midweek there might be a decent following, especially if some decide to make a BH weekend of it in London.

[BP1960]

1 minute ago, rudemedic said:

Just because it is not smart, doesn't mean he won't do it. I was thinking with it being Borehamwood not that many will go. But as last year's game was midweek there might be a decent following, especially if some decide to make a BH weekend of it in London.

 

I understand Boreham Wood have a few injuries to key players, hope we can capitalise on that situation.

[frizzell54]

28 minutes ago, rudemedic said:

Just because it is not smart, doesn't mean he won't do it. I was thinking with it being Borehamwood not that many will go. But as last year's game was midweek there might be a decent following, especially if some decide to make a BH weekend of it in London.

Is this not the problem?  He is too fixed on his system and can't/won't adapt.  

[Littlemoor Lad]

27 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I understand Boreham Wood have a few injuries to key players, hope we can capitalise on that situation.

Yet another get out of jail card, blimey, at this rate we'll have a full deck 

[Ackey]

34 minutes ago, frizzell54 said:

Is this not the problem?  He is too fixed on his system and can't/won't adapt.  

We've played a different system in multiple games this season and we're only four games in.

 

Not defending him. Just think that's wrong.

[Dave_Og]

29 minutes ago, Ackey said:

We've played a different system in multiple games this season and we're only four games in.

 

Not defending him. Just think that's wrong.

Hang on a minute, that's connected to reality!

[Steve_R]

3 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I expect that, given the quality and money spent on our squad, that even with Unsworth we will finish in the playoff positions, but I think a good manager could have us with the title in the bag by Easter...

Although I don’t agree with the Easter bit, I can’t see us not finishing in the playoffs, despite my reservations about Unsworth. A decent manager would definitely have us challenging for the title, and if we finish seventh that won’t be any sort of achievement to me

[Littlemoor Lad]

24 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

Although I don’t agree with the Easter bit, I can’t see us not finishing in the playoffs, despite my reservations about Unsworth. A decent manager would definitely have us challenging for the title, and if we finish seventh that won’t be any sort of achievement to me

I think he's not far off with the Easter bit and I'll get my bonnet on for that,

I don't see us as title challengers in reality, which throws us into a lottery like Notts had to face, which was criminal TBH.

Play-offs would be a good outcome given what's going on right now and hope for the best and more luck if we haven't already used up our full allocation 

[Monty Burns]

4 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

This is a huge concern I too have - to a degree,  I can understand the way we set up away from home at Chesterfield.

 

But to adopt the same approach at Borehamwood would not be a smart move - just more grist to the mill for the increasingly large anti Unsworth mob…

yes l agree but are we disrespeckin boreham wood?

[Littlemoor Lad]

Just now, Monty Burns said:

yes l agree but are we disrespeckin boreham wood?

I think they'll give us a game and so will Solihull 

Boreham have beaten us before and will be expecting to do the same again, yes give them respect but we have to also have the belief to show them last season isn't happening this time.

A win will be massive and could be the catalyst to sort Solihull out on our own patch

[Lee Sinnott]

40 minutes ago, Steve_R said:

Although I don’t agree with the Easter bit, I can’t see us not finishing in the playoffs, despite my reservations about Unsworth. A decent manager would definitely have us challenging for the title, and if we finish seventh that won’t be any sort of achievement to me

After Altrincham on Easter Monday, we only have 3 games left. A good manager could have the title sewn up by then...

[Littlemoor Lad]

2 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

After Altrincham on Easter Monday, we only have 3 games left. A good manager could have the title sewn up by then...

As we are now it ain't happening and you heard so from our managers mouth

 

[Lee Sinnott]

2 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

As we are now it ain't happening and you heard so from our managers mouth

 

I know. That was kinda my point...