Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 hours ago, sjk2008 said: Now I’ve come to terms with the fact we’re gonna be spending another season in this league, I remain optimistic with Mellon. We have a team full of absolute bottle merchants. That much is clear. They can play better when there’s less pressure and we’re seen as the situational underdogs, such as Chesterfield or when we’re behind to an in-form Altrincham or a man down against Fylde. But then the expectation weighs on the players, they can’t deliver. I’m not absolving players like Norwood of any blame, but I totally understand his frustrations. Conlon, debut aside, has looked lost. But the biggest thing for me, is we have gone thru an entire season without any real pace outlets, no good wingers and very little central midfielders who can collectively control a game. As a result, we can’t dominate games. Our creativity is seriously lacking, and our defenders have no passing options so resort to hoofing. If they had more balls about them, we’d look a lot better. That being said, I feel we need two full backs and an entire midfield. Kitching can go for me. If the Reid situation bothers him so much, follow him out of the door. We need a specialist right back, that much is obvious. Conlon, Gardner, Lundstram and Sheron can stay, but not sure I’d put my house on any of them being nailed on starters, but definitely squad options. Bring in a DM who can control a game, bring in a #10 similar to CCC (who we should have gone all out for) and bring in 2 wingers. Proper, fast wingers. Id also like a pacey forward. And one thing we have to remember, it took Notts County, Wrexham and Stockport a long time to get out of this division. Same for Chesterfield. I think it’s about time we started respecting this division (myself included). Apart from the Kitching take, it's as good as an assessment as I've seen on here. Summed up perfectly, particularly the need for pace and creativity. If we're not top of the division, but we're seeing a real upturn in attitude, performances, BIG wins and much better home form, I expect most will get behind it, even if it's not quite good enough next term. We just haven't had the sense of improvement even though there has been improvement. It's got to be tangiable and self-evident rather than a few points and places further up the board. A big, meaty win or two in the last few matches will go a long way to helping that, even if the cynics will call it a papering over the cracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 12 hours ago, Dave_Og said: Would we give Dallas time? Seems pretty clear that Barnsley have written him off - farming him out back to this level doesn't smack of them being sure they got a player good enough for L1 I absolutely would. He was one of the few who never tried to hide and even when he gets flattened as he did several times against Chesterfield and again by Altrincham's centre half (amazingly, given as a foul against him), he gets back up and goes again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 19 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: I absolutely would. He was one of the few who never tried to hide and even when he gets flattened as he did several times against Chesterfield and again by Altrincham's centre half (amazingly, given as a foul against him), he gets back up and goes again. And then does what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, whittles left foot said: And then does what exactly? Sprays a 20 yard pass across to Gardner who slots it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradKnowles1 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 12 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said: Apart from the Kitching take, it's as good as an assessment as I've seen on here. Summed up perfectly, particularly the need for pace and creativity. If we're not top of the division, but we're seeing a real upturn in attitude, performances, BIG wins and much better home form, I expect most will get behind it, even if it's not quite good enough next term. We just haven't had the sense of improvement even though there has been improvement. It's got to be tangiable and self-evident rather than a few points and places further up the board. A big, meaty win or two in the last few matches will go a long way to helping that, even if the cynics will call it a papering over the cracks. Did Mellon not say at the fans forum wingers don’t feature much in the modern game so basically won’t be used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 minutes ago, BradKnowles1 said: Did Mellon not say at the fans forum wingers don’t feature much in the modern game so basically won’t be used? No idea. I wasn't there and don't recall that being quoted. What he has said in a post match presser or two was we have virtually no pace or natural wide players at our disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 46 minutes ago, BradKnowles1 said: Did Mellon not say at the fans forum wingers don’t feature much in the modern game so basically won’t be used? Sadly he's got a point. There are precious few of them in the traditional sense. Grealish is described as a winger at City but he's hardly in the mould of Rick Holden! I guess the modern mantra of pressing is pretty incompatible with the development of luxury wingers; can't press much when you're hugging the touchline. One current winger comes come to mind; Doku at City. He's a prime example of why they've fallen out of fashion. Loads of skill, quite exciting, sod all end product! Edited April 3 by Dave_Og Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 42 minutes ago, BradKnowles1 said: Did Mellon not say at the fans forum wingers don’t feature much in the modern game so basically won’t be used? Something along those lines…yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 When was this fans forum with Mellon...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 minute ago, Lee Sinnott said: When was this fans forum with Mellon...? Just after he took Brabin on as coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Wingers as we know them (Holden/Adams) aren't really a thing anymore are they? It's more wide forwards who cut in etc. Ones that can play in a 442 or wide in a 433/451. Last summer's recruitment didn't feel like it was recruiting to a formation or formations. He referenced having to play 352 because of the squad but we didn't have a rwb and Kitching apparently needs someone in front of him. So that was the best we could work to. I presume he's already identified how he wants to play and will be recruiting appropriately over this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 38 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Wingers as we know them (Holden/Adams) aren't really a thing anymore are they? It's more wide forwards who cut in etc. Ones that can play in a 442 or wide in a 433/451. Last summer's recruitment didn't feel like it was recruiting to a formation or formations. He referenced having to play 352 because of the squad but we didn't have a rwb and Kitching apparently needs someone in front of him. So that was the best we could work to. I presume he's already identified how he wants to play and will be recruiting appropriately over this summer. Manchester United use them..Garnacho and Antony. City often use one. Argentina won the World Cup with Di Maria. Edited April 3 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 11 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Wingers as we know them (Holden/Adams) aren't really a thing anymore are they? It's more wide forwards who cut in etc. Ones that can play in a 442 or wide in a 433/451. Last summer's recruitment didn't feel like it was recruiting to a formation or formations. He referenced having to play 352 because of the squad but we didn't have a rwb and Kitching apparently needs someone in front of him. So that was the best we could work to. I presume he's already identified how he wants to play and will be recruiting appropriately over this summer. Part of it is the diminution of the role of the traditional centre-forward. There's no point flinging crosses over when playing a false 9! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) Talking of swinging crosses over….when was the last time we scored from a corner kick? I can’t remember….must have been a while ago! Edited April 3 by oafc1955 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 48 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Manchester United use them..Garnacho and Antony. City often use one. Argentina won the World Cup with Di Maria. Not working out well at Old Trafford though ! Playing them on the "wrong" wing seems to be the norm nowadays but they need to have the ability to take full backs on the outside as well now and then, something Antony certainly can't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: Talking of swinging crosses over….when was the last time we scored from a corner kick? I can’t remember….must have been a while ago! Our players invariably just mill around the goalie instead of making positive runs to get on the end of crosses. There's a distinct lack of movement when corners are being taken. Just charging about in every direction would result in more chances being created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Our players invariably just mill around the goalie instead of making positive runs to get on the end of crosses. There's a distinct lack of movement when corners are being taken. Just charging about in every direction would result in more chances being created. Probably the only time we regularly get players in to the box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 4 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Our players invariably just mill around the goalie instead of making positive runs to get on the end of crosses. There's a distinct lack of movement when corners are being taken. Just charging about in every direction would result in more chances being created. Yes, zero imagination from the training ground, a common theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 50 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Not working out well at Old Trafford though ! Playing them on the "wrong" wing seems to be the norm nowadays but they need to have the ability to take full backs on the outside as well now and then, something Antony certainly can't do. What can you expect for £85m... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 56 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Not working out well at Old Trafford though ! Playing them on the "wrong" wing seems to be the norm nowadays but they need to have the ability to take full backs on the outside as well now and then, something Antony certainly can't do. Jack Grealish certainly can't. He's so telegraphed now he's not a threat he should be anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Dave_Og said: Sadly he's got a point. There are precious few of them in the traditional sense. Grealish is described as a winger at City but he's hardly in the mould of Rick Holden! I guess the modern mantra of pressing is pretty incompatible with the development of luxury wingers; can't press much when you're hugging the touchline. One current winger comes come to mind; Doku at City. He's a prime example of why they've fallen out of fashion. Loads of skill, quite exciting, sod all end product! 6 goals and 5 assists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 48 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: 6 goals and 5 assists 4 of those assists were in one match 5 months ago. Can prove whatever you like with stats. BBC says 4 goals and one of those was in a whupping of Huddersfield Edited April 3 by Dave_Og 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: 4 of those assists were in one match 5 months ago. Can prove whatever you like with stats. BBC says 4 goals and one of those was in a whupping of Huddersfield Antony is the epitome of no end product. Doku will get better he's only 21. At least he has something. There are some very good wingers around now. Jarrod Bowen for one, Gordon another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: 4 of those assists were in one match 5 months ago. Can prove whatever you like with stats. BBC says 4 goals and one of those was in a whupping of Huddersfield As a Stewart Lee fan, you'll know you can prove anything with facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Just now, mcfluff1985 said: Antony is the epitome of no end product. Doku will get better he's only 21. At least he has something. There are some very good wingers around now. Jarrod Bowen for one, Gordon another You've proved my point. Bowen isn't a winger as they used to be. My money is on Doku fading away; show pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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