NewBlue Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Erwin and McKay are no less proven than Osei. Banks was probably considered first choice on reputation when he came in but was soon dislodged by the unproven Fane and rightly so, what's to say Osei couldn't have the same impact? Well that's rubbish. #1 Fane and Banks are entirely different players and would never have been considered interchangeable by the manager #2 Osei has never started a professional league game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Well that's rubbish. #1 Fane and Banks are entirely different players and would never have been considered interchangeable by the manager #2 Osei has never started a professional league game. Osei has started a couple of Lancashire Senior Cup games against Manchester United and Everton. I'd count them as professional matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The Manchester Senior Cup games were probably more competitive than the Micky mouse pub league games that Erwin and McKay have proved themselves in North of the border, just to put that league into context Rooney went up there and top scored despite being in a very average Aberdeen side, McKay and Erwin may have grabbed themselves decent moves to Leeds and Wigan but be honest neither has done anything and the only thing they have proved is that they can't score goals in English League football, there's still time of course but Osei for me has looked more dangerous in his limited cameos than the pair of them put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 As for Fane/Banks, I'd guarantee Fane was brought in as a squad player rather than a starter but he forced his way in ahead of Banks despite the latter being a standing dish in League one, his performances when given the chance dictated that in a similar way to which Osei is pushing for a start, Fane and Banks are not the same player but they do occupy the same position on the pitch it's just that Fane offers the team more than Banks in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) I understand Mckay not getting a gig (even if he did win us the free kick Law scored with good movement and a good turn) but Erwin has been the standout player for me at the start of the season. Does so much in providing options further up the field and helps us keep it and move up the pitch. I dont understand, after Saturdays showing why everyone thinks Ladapo is some sort of saviour. He may be pretty good in the future, but he was very average on Saturday and would be lucky to start again. Osei played really well out wide, so maybe you can play 3 men, and use Osei as a winger. Just hope its not a narrow 4-3-3 again. And anyone who cheers Ched Evans is a :censored:ing moron. Ex City :censored: who cheered infront of us at Sheff Utd after scoring. Hes not our player, he never was our player, and he is still on a rape charge! Edited September 8, 2016 by youngen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) The Manchester Senior Cup games were probably more competitive than the Micky mouse pub league games that Erwin and McKay have proved themselves in North of the border, just to put that league into context Rooney went up there and top scored despite being in a very average Aberdeen side, McKay and Erwin may have grabbed themselves decent moves to Leeds and Wigan but be honest neither has done anything and the only thing they have proved is that they can't score goals in English League football, there's still time of course but Osei for me has looked more dangerous in his limited cameos than the pair of them put together. If you think Erwin doesn't look dangerous reassess how you watch the game. Although you are the same person who said Cassidy had a better touch than Holloway... As for Fane/Banks, I'd guarantee Fane was brought in as a squad player rather than a starter but he forced his way in ahead of Banks despite the latter being a standing dish in League one, his performances when given the chance dictated that in a similar way to which Osei is pushing for a start, Fane and Banks are not the same player but they do occupy the same position on the pitch it's just that Fane offers the team more than Banks in there. They may both be centre mids but that's where it stops. Most managers, and we know this from experience, don't sacrifice defensive midfielders for attacking ones. There is no way that the manager will have ever said 'Banks doesn't look sharp, so I'll change my whole system, formation and tactics to accommodate Fane.' They occupy a position about 30 yards apart. Edited September 8, 2016 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 How about we give a strike partnership a decent amount of time to forge an understanding for once? Especially a pair who, while not scoring regularly yet, are doing plenty of other stuff well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Erwin looks dangerous granted but he tries to do too much and is reluctant to shoot given the chance, his best bits of play have come out wide for me and although he will score the odd one he's never going to be prolific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Erwin looks dangerous granted but he tries to do too much and is reluctant to shoot given the chance, his best bits of play have come out wide for me and although he will score the odd one he's never going to be prolific. He's missed quite a lot of chances so far, but he's got on the end of them, which is more than can be said for Mckay, and that's what's most important. Keep letting him do what he's doing and hope that with a goal under his belt he'll put the next few chances away. I'd be tempted to stick Erwin and Ladapo together, but I can understand the manager persevering with Mckay. He's worked hard, just struggled badly so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The Manchester Senior Cup games were probably more competitive than the Micky mouse pub league games that Erwin and McKay have proved themselves in North of the border, just to put that league into context Rooney went up there and top scored despite being in a very average Aberdeen side, McKay and Erwin may have grabbed themselves decent moves to Leeds and Wigan but be honest neither has done anything and the only thing they have proved is that they can't score goals in English League football, there's still time of course but Osei for me has looked more dangerous in his limited cameos than the pair of them put together. Difficult to take the point seriously if you disparage the scots prem as low standard, but want Osei to play because he did well in one reserve/ youth team game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Difficult to take the point seriously if you disparage the scots prem as low standard, but want Osei to play because he did well in one reserve/ youth team game. Very true, little facts like that won't stop him 'having his say' though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) Yes I would. Ironic that he scored against Shrews because that was probably his worst showing for us. I think he looks tired - and I did say "a well deserved rest" to be fair - just can't see him and McKay scoring many goals between them this season. I can see Osei and Ladapo doing so IF they are given a decent run to strike up a partnership (as he's tried with Erwin and McKay to be fair). It's nice to have options - sometimes you should use them. Bit like Rashford for England really - looked dangerous for the National side - so the manager demotes him to u 21s because he's too inexperienced - if you're good enough, you're old enough. Osei has looked particularly sharp - surely deserves a run in the side from the off? I used to think like that. But I completely disagree now I've seen the light. Your England player analogy is a good one too - but for my point. When we played a friendly in Rio and took the likes of Oxlaide-Chamberlain and other kids, we did so at the expense of the U21 team who at the same time were playing in the Euro U21s in Israel. That team didn't score a point. Infact, I don't think they even scored a goal. Who benefited? Not the senior team. Not the U21 kids. Look at the likes of Dele Alli. I couldn't believe how he was thrown into the England senior team...and what happened...absolutely froze in the Euros in France. There is case after case of this happening. Rashford must see through the current U21 campaign IMO and go and enjoy next summers U21 tournament. Then when he's had that pressure and taste of Tourney football he will be better for it in the long run. Bringing it back to League One football...relate it to the hundreds of flashes in the pan who explode onto the scene, get signed up by a higher league but never truly make it. Have maybe 1 good season and then never the same. Plenty of them signed up by clubs in the league above then slowly flit back down to our level and beyond. These players hit a wall because they've not been nurtured properly. A lot of players don't get the schooling and time to develop. The best example of it working is probably Vardy and he knows it...that's why he turned down Arsenal. The pressure would be massively different. He can earn a good wage still and be comfortable where he is. The days of good enough/old enough most times don't offer any long term success. I've liked what I've seen from Osei so far but that's because my expectations are grounded (not saying yours aren't) and I think SR will nurture him slowly. I don't think we should be throwing him in as a long term replacement for McKay at present but as it is with clubs like us...if McKay does turn out to be a bag of spanners, Osei will then be thrown in to sink or swim. And probably won't do him many favours in the long run. Edited September 8, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) I used to think like that. But I completely disagree now I've seen the light. Your England player analogy is a good one too - but for my point. When we played a friendly in Rio and took the likes of Oxlaide-Chamberlain and other kids, we did so at the expense of the U21 team who at the same time were playing in the Euro U21s in Israel. That team didn't score a point. Infact, I don't think they even scored a goal. Who benefited? Not the senior team. Not the U21 kids. Look at the likes of Dele Alli. I couldn't believe how he was thrown into the England senior team...and what happened...absolutely froze in the Euros in France. There is case after case of this happening. Rashford must see through the current U21 campaign IMO and go and enjoy next summers U21 tournament. Then when he's had that pressure and taste of Tourney football he will be better for it in the long run. Bringing it back to League One football...relate it to the hundreds of flashes in the pan who explode onto the scene, get signed up by a higher league but never truly make it. Have maybe 1 good season and then never the same. Plenty of them signed up by clubs in the league above then slowly flit back down to our level and beyond. These players hit a wall because they've not been nurtured properly. A lot of players don't get the schooling and time to develop. The best example of it working is probably Vardy and he knows it...that's why he turned down Arsenal. The pressure would be massively different. He can earn a good wage still and be comfortable where he is. The days of good enough/old enough most times don't offer any long term success. I've liked what I've seen from Osei so far but that's because my expectations are grounded (not saying yours aren't) and I think SR will nurture him slowly. I don't think we should be throwing him in as a long term replacement for McKay at present but as it is with clubs like us...if McKay does turn out to be a bag of spanners, Osei will then be thrown in to sink or swim. And probably won't do him many favours in the long run. Some kids can handle it - Owen & Rooney did, for example. Others can't. It's up to managers - club &/or international - to gauge that player by player and handle them accordingly. U-21's for everyone as a catch all would have meant no Owen in 98 and no Rooney in Portugal. England's best players in both those tournaments. If they're good enough & mentally strong enough, they're old enough. Also, maybe some players were always going to look like world beaters at Age 18 but it was always ultimately going to go tits up anyway regardless of how they were handled. Edited September 8, 2016 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markspark92 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Scottish League is a poor standard to League 1 to be fair few examples to look at McKay, Goodwille, Rooney, Lafferty all scored goals in the Scottish Prem earned a move here and all have struggled in English football makes me sick looking at Adam Rooneys record for Aberdeen 81 games 46 goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) Some kids can handle it - Owen & Rooney did, for example. Others can't. It's up to managers - club &/or international - to gauge that player by player and handle them accordingly. U-21's for everyone as a catch all would have meant no Owen in 98 and no Rooney in Portugal. England's best players in both those tournaments. If they're good enough & mentally strong enough, they're old enough. Also, maybe some players were always going to look like world beaters at Age 18 but it was always ultimately going to go tits up anyway regardless of how they were handled. How many Latics youth can we think of from the past who stepped up into to the first team and became established? I can go back as far as Les Chapman. Edited September 8, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Chris Makin so many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Paul Gerrard. My hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Some kids can handle it - Owen & Rooney did, for example. Others can't. It's up to managers - club &/or international - to gauge that player by player and handle them accordingly. U-21's for everyone as a catch all would have meant no Owen in 98 and no Rooney in Portugal. England's best players in both those tournaments. If they're good enough & mentally strong enough, they're old enough. Also, maybe some players were always going to look like world beaters at Age 18 but it was always ultimately going to go tits up anyway regardless of how they were handled. Both burnt out/crocked ahead of their time though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 How many Latics youth can we think of from the past who stepped up into to the first team and became established? I can go back as far as Les Chapman. Tarkowski and Coleman are probably the best recent examples however they were in and out of the side to begin with probably rightly so. It was Tarkys 3rd season where he became an established fixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) How many Latics youth can we think of from the past who stepped up into to the first team and became established? I can go back as far as Les Chapman. Paul Rickers,Carl Serrant, Richard Graham David Beresford Chris Taylor Will Haining Tarky, Scotty Vernon Edited September 8, 2016 by Forte_Baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) Neal Eardley. Edited September 8, 2016 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Keith Hicks, I think he won an England youth cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC0AFC Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Has this started again? We do this every 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 John Platt Chris Ogden Graham Bell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Ladapo doubtful. Maybe Osei will get his chance after all... More likely he'll go back to two up front, hope Mckay starts firing, and adds an extra midfielder alongside Klok, Green and Flynn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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