Squad movements, summer 2018

[Bobledgersheart]

I can understand him being frustrated at being played out of position but he needs to ask why he was ? It's because the manager couldn't trust him in centre midfield  to cover back, make a tackle or even "get involved" when he lost the ball. This was shown graphically when he played wide right, did nothing to assist his full back and Dummigan got slated for getting caught out by two opponents. He has the makings of a good footballer but his attitude stinks, sometimes great to watch with the ball, poor without it.And to those saying he has a "winners mentality" then it's about time he showed it on the field with a bit more effort to help his teammates not jumping up and down like a spoilt three year old when things don't go his way. Personally I'd be sorry to see him, and his undoubted talent, go but not if his sulky attitude remains. Probably the main reason we got relegated last season was a lack of togetherness in the squad and the Jack Byrne of last year could hardly be described as a team player. 

[deyres42]

People talking like he was stuck out on the touchline.

 

He pretty much was deployed as an inside right in most matches.

[Crusoe]

12 hours ago, singe said:

Does the list include Academy players?

 

 

Nah, can't be doing keeping track of another squad as well!

[leeslover]

7 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

People talking like he was stuck out on the touchline.

 

He pretty much was deployed as an inside right in most matches.

He did a lot of his best work in his (our) good spell starting from the left side corner flag

[jorvik_latic]

48 minutes ago, welshgaz said:

Slightly tongue in cheek that comment from me.

 

But there are legs to my point that you condemn so patronisingly. Our form came from Fane winning the ball and JB getting close to him to receive the ball and pull the strings. Either you didn't notice that or don't understand that to pull the strings you need to win the ball first.

 

There was an interview with Byrne pretty much saying that. Said he enjoyed playing next to him in particular.

 

One of Byrne's issues when he doesn't play well is that he comes too close to players to receive the ball and is then closed down too quickly. He needs to pull out into space a bit more. You need someone who can pick out a decent pass for that though.

Edited July 23, 2018 by jorvik_latic
spelling

[kowenicki]

1 minute ago, jorvik_latic said:

 

There was an interview with Byrne pretty much saying that. Said he enjoyed playing next to him in particular.

 

One of Byrne's issues when he doesn't play well is that he comes to close to players to receive the ball and is then closed down too quickly. He needs to pull out into space a bit more. You need someone who can pick out a decent pass for that though.

 

Spot on this. 

[rudemedic]

1 minute ago, jorvik_latic said:

 

There was an interview with Byrne pretty much saying that. Said he enjoyed playing next to him in particular.

 

One of Byrne's issues when he doesn't play well is that he comes to close to players to receive the ball and is then closed down too quickly. He needs to pull out into space a bit more. You need someone who can pick out a decent pass for that though.

If one of the players can't be trusted with anything more than a 5 yard pass that will happen. 

[lookersstandandy]

2 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said:

 

You need someone who can pick out a decent pass for that though.

 

Baxter. If those two could stay fit..... and out of trouble.... they could tear up a lot of defences in League 2.

[Monty Burns]

45 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I can understand him being frustrated at being played out of position but he needs to ask why he was ? It's because the manager couldn't trust him in centre midfield  to cover back, make a tackle or even "get involved" when he lost the ball. This was shown graphically when he played wide right, did nothing to assist his full back and Dummigan got slated for getting caught out by two opponents. He has the makings of a good footballer but his attitude stinks, sometimes great to watch with the ball, poor without it.And to those saying he has a "winners mentality" then it's about time he showed it on the field with a bit more effort to help his teammates not jumping up and down like a spoilt three year old when things don't go his way. Personally I'd be sorry to see him, and his undoubted talent, go but not if his sulky attitude remains. Probably the main reason we got relegated last season was a lack of togetherness in the squad and the Jack Byrne of last year could hardly be described as a team player. 

Well argued.

[kowenicki]

8 minutes ago, rudemedic said:

If one of the players can't be trusted with anything more than a 5 yard pass that will happen. 

 

Bit he did it regardless of who had the ball... he always ran toward them with his arms out demanding the ball. 

[deyres42]

8 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

Bit he did it regardless of who had the ball... he always ran toward them with his arms out demanding the ball. 

We've had enough in recent times who have ran away from the ball...

[oldhamoafc]

 

56 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

I can understand him being frustrated at being played out of position but he needs to ask why he was ? It's because the manager couldn't trust him in centre midfield  to cover back, make a tackle or even "get involved" when he lost the ball. This was shown graphically when he played wide right, did nothing to assist his full back and Dummigan got slated for getting caught out by two opponents. He has the makings of a good footballer but his attitude stinks, sometimes great to watch with the ball, poor without it.And to those saying he has a "winners mentality" then it's about time he showed it on the field with a bit more effort to help his teammates not jumping up and down like a spoilt three year old when things don't go his way. Personally I'd be sorry to see him, and his undoubted talent, go but not if his sulky attitude remains. Probably the main reason we got relegated last season was a lack of togetherness in the squad and the Jack Byrne of last year could hardly be described as a team player. 

Why did the manager change a system that was working? With Byrne and Gardner right next to fane? And spread the latter two further out wide. And as you say... Byrne isn’t a winger and won’t track his full back. And as a manager wellens should have solved that. 

 

Look at the best creative mids in the world and the number 10s and you’ll see That barely one of them has to run back and defend. That’s why fane and Gardner were in the team. 

 

[oldhamoafc]

14 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

Bit he did it regardless of who had the ball... he always ran toward them with his arms out demanding the ball. 

He was literally the only player in the team who could create anything. If you’re playing in a team of donkeys and headless chickens, you’d do the same. 

 

Says he didnt do enough then criticise that he demanded the ball too much. 

 

Cant win...

[yarddog73]

No doubt about it that when he has his head on the game he's a joy to watch but once that switch flips he embarrasses himself, really its up to the player himself where his career goes and he has to at some stage take responsibility before its too late.

 

I am one of his biggest critics but the main reason for this is that the problems he has are so easy to eradicate, he has to buy in to what the whole team are trying to do and as great as he undoubtedly can be you cannot have the tail wagging the dog.

 

What this lad has you can't train, he has more ability in his little toe than most others have but he still needs to be able to sacrifice himself at times for the greater good of the team, if he stays I hope he can sort himself out because if he doesn't and slips out of the game it will be a sad sad day and one he will undoubtedly regret in the future. 

[disjointed]

1 hour ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Baxter. If those two could stay fit..... and out of trouble.... they could tear up a lot of defences in League 2.

This.  Get Gardner and a.n. other to do the spade work and let JB x 2 rip the league apart.

[palmer1]

2 hours ago, oldhamoafc said:

1. Slating him in the press one minute and praising him the next minute, playing him out of position which is bad for both him and the team. Dropping him randomly. Bringing him on to save the game.

 

2. No, anyone can have a winning mentality. 

 

1 You'll have to remind me how he slated him as I honestly don't recall. If it was he isn't doing his job properly then as 'a winner' then how can that possibly be?

 

2. You'll find to b a winner you do actually have to win something hence people calling you a winner. A winning mentality takes you only so far. In this case league 2 and what looks like a pre-season suspension.

Charlie Sheen had a winning mentality just before he was sacked from a million dollar contract and was diagnosed with HIV - WINNING!

 

Byrnes problem isn't talent, its mentality which is far from winning and application when things don't go his way. He could potentially throw away a superb career. its up to him

Edited July 23, 2018 by palmer1

[leeslover]

Just now, palmer1 said:

 

1 You'll have to remind me how he slated him as I honestly don't recall. If it was he isn't doing his job properly then as 'a winner' then how can that possibly be?

 

2. You'll find to b a winner you do actually have to win something hence people calling you a winner. A winning mentality takes you only so far. In this case league 2 and what looks like a pre-season suspension.

Charlie Sheen had a winning mentality just before he was sacked from a million dollar contract and was diagnosed with HIV - WINNING!

Charlie Sheen was BI-WINNING. That's how good he is.

[L1onheartNew]

I for one hope Byrne stays. He was one of the reasons that got me up at stupid oclock on the other side of the world to enjoy football again.

[mikejh45]

1 hour ago, oldhamoafc said:

 

Why did the manager change a system that was working? With Byrne and Gardner right next to fane? And spread the latter two further out wide. And as you say... Byrne isn’t a winger and won’t track his full back. And as a manager wellens should have solved that. 

 

Look at the best creative mids in the world and the number 10s and you’ll see That barely one of them has to run back and defend. That’s why fane and Gardner were in the team. 

 

Agree with this but you missed Nepo out of the equation. I was of the impression that he was far more effective and disciplined down the left than Pringle which enabled Fane and Gardner to assist Dummigan and leave Byrne in the middle.

 

I don't get this argument that Byrne should be a team player and play wide right because that is where the manager wants him to play.....it is not his natural position. How many people on here have complained that, over the last couple of years, too many managers have played square pegs in round holes and we should get the players in their correct position and now we are criticising him for that self same reason.

[Gary1906]

16 minutes ago, mikejh45 said:

Agree with this but you missed Nepo out of the equation. I was of the impression that he was far more effective and disciplined down the left than Pringle which enabled Fane and Gardner to assist Dummigan and leave Byrne in the middle.

 

I don't get this argument that Byrne should be a team player and play wide right because that is where the manager wants him to play.....it is not his natural position. How many people on here have complained that, over the last couple of years, too many managers have played square pegs in round holes and we should get the players in their correct position and now we are criticising him for that self same reason.

Sometimes you have to play somewhere for the good of the team. It might - with the benefit of hindsight - not have been a great decision by the manager, but as a player you’ve just got to get on with it, not throw your toys out of the pram because you can’t have your own way. I’ve said it before on here, the world doesn’t revolve around Jack Byrne.

 

[mikejh45]

1 minute ago, Gary1906 said:

Sometimes you have to play somewhere for the good of the team. It might - with the benefit of hindsight - not have been a great decision by the manager, but as a player you’ve just got to get on with it, not throw your toys out of the pram because you can’t have your own way. I’ve said it before on here, the world doesn’t revolve around Jack Byrne.

 

 

But if he's continually crap in that position....don't play him in that position, put someone in who is more disciplined.

[League one forever]

33 minutes ago, mikejh45 said:

 

But if he's continually crap in that position....don't play him in that position, put someone in who is more disciplined.

I think if we could see that he still put a shift in out of position, then people would be firmly behind him. 

 

You can still contribute out of your natural/preferred position.

 

He didn’t. 

[youngen]

11 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I think if we could see that he still put a shift in out of position, then people would be firmly behind him. 

 

You can still contribute out of your natural/preferred position.

 

He didn’t. 

 

Hes not the sort of player "to put a shift in". When he plays number 10, he doesnt move massively, hes clever with his touch and the ball. He is way too lightweight to run around like a headless chicken just so it looks like he has tried. 

 

If you asked Fane to play up front you would be exactly the opposite. He would run around "putting a shift in" but wouldnt score a goal cos he cant kick it straight, so everyone would slag him off. Byrne did contribute still, but if youre going to play a shape which doesn't play to the best of his ability, then he shouldnt play. 

Wellens biggest fault was not keeping Byrne central and changing a system that had started so well.

 

Same as this year, Byrne is an excellent player to have on the books, but hes challenging Baxter to play behind a number 9, then I don't see where Byrne fits. If Baxter is the number 9 and Byrne behind, thats the only place I see him.

[mikejh45]

6 minutes ago, youngen said:

 

Same as this year, Byrne is an excellent player to have on the books, but hes challenging Baxter to play behind a number 9, then I don't see where Byrne fits.

 

Looks like Byrne tackled the wrong player in training then!!!

[League one forever]

20 minutes ago, youngen said:

 

Hes not the sort of player "to put a shift in". When he plays number 10, he doesnt move massively, hes clever with his touch and the ball. He is way too lightweight to run around like a headless chicken just so it looks like he has tried. 

 

If you asked Fane to play up front you would be exactly the opposite. He would run around "putting a shift in" but wouldnt score a goal cos he cant kick it straight, so everyone would slag him off. Byrne did contribute still, but if youre going to play a shape which doesn't play to the best of his ability, then he shouldnt play. 

Wellens biggest fault was not keeping Byrne central and changing a system that had started so well.

 

Same as this year, Byrne is an excellent player to have on the books, but hes challenging Baxter to play behind a number 9, then I don't see where Byrne fits. If Baxter is the number 9 and Byrne behind, thats the only place I see him.

Your contradicting your own point. 

 

One minute Byrne isn’t that ‘type of player’ the next you’d play him behind Baxter in centre mid. 

 

I dont know about you but I want my centre mid to be that ‘type of player’ and moreover Byrne showed last season he can be  exactly that type of player. 

 

Against Blackburn he played on the right of a midfield three, he was box to box, tenacious in the tackle, went passed people with ease, and could of scored. He was everywhere that day. I remember thinking, my god, I can’t remember the last time I saw a midfield performance like it. When he’s on it, he’s a very complete footballer. Who is more than capable of contributing in or out of position. 

 

Baxter is much more of a flair player, who has never and will never track back. Nor I would expect it from him. 

 

I totally agree- that IF you can get his head right, he plays centre mid with Baxter ahead of him in the free role. They could be very effective.