FORUM POLL: Unsworth - what happens next?

[Chaddyexile84]

1 hour ago, Yorkyp65 said:

Amazingly York City have just sacked manager John Askey .A proven manager at this level he took over at York last season with York languishing in mid table in the national league north .He took em up the table squeezed into the play offs and got them promoted. They started this season well and were in the play off places until a couple of games ago .The fans are in utter outrage about the sacking .The football world has gone mad .

 

Sounds like a falling out with the board as surely can't be on results/performances

[Monty Burns]

awww usually you can have a look at who voted which way. fancied a good laugh at the make up of the sportscast brigade, sorry, panic mongers!!

[Monty Burns]

aww no way bonussss @JoeP you started this poll too.

 

show us who wants rid, Joe

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Monty Burns said:

aww no way bonussss @JoeP you started this poll too.

 

show us who wants rid, Joe

 

Can you not? Hover over the little totals on the right hand side of the poll bars...

[basilrobbie]

Both the options in this poll come with a sizeable degree of risk, don't they? Hence the argument.

 

Thinking about it from the owner's point of view, having paid what I think is (reportedly) a big price for the club , he wants to give himself the maximum chance of success. So rushing to a quick decision to get rid of this manager that HIS team identified as the answer is not likely to happen - unless he panics. 

 

How long do you give him? If you were a league club, a couple of transfer windows, and they are still relevant in the sense that the pool he wants to fish in presumably includes at least some players who won't be available until January. I'd argue that even with the new faces you already have, this isn't really his squad yet, and the disastrous recruitment of the previous regime will take some time to unravel. He's hardly to blame for that, even though it is him who has to operate within the constraints that come with it. 

 

If you don't mind me saying so, I think many of you under-estimated the quality of this League and are still under-estimating the damage that has been done to the overall professional competence of the club. My club are three and a half years on from regime change and STILL coping with historical problems.  In a Division where a good few clubs are making a very little go a very long way, that is a big issue. 

 

I'd give him time, to be honest. You are crying out for some continuity, for one thing. He's had about five minutes to make an impact, for another. And changing the leader now not only comes with absolutely no guarantees of success, but is arguably just as much of a risk as sticking with him. 

 

 

[TheBigDog]

17 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

I'd give him time, to be honest. You are crying out for some continuity, for one thing. He's had about five minutes to make an impact, for another. And changing the leader now not only comes with absolutely no guarantees of success, but is arguably just as much of a risk as sticking with him. 

 

You are missing the real reason for the fan’s disappointment in Unsworth’s tenure to date:

 

Even allowing for the distinct lack of technical ability in many of the squad, he has not managed to get even the basic effort and work rate from the players.
He sets us up to defend, even against very average teams (one up front, dropping deep) and THAT’S why the doubts in his ability as a coach have crept in.

Furthermore he signs players such as Rooney and plays them in the wrong position thereby stifling any chance they might have of making an impact.

 

We are prepared to give him time but that time is conditional on him effecting improvement. We saw some signs at Maidstone but the disappointment in his management so far is understandable.

 

He has to show progress and soon or the dissenting voices will only get stronger.

 

[basilrobbie]

47 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

 

Even allowing for the distinct lack of technical ability in many of the squad, he has not managed to get even the basic effort and work rate from the players.

 

 I'm not disputing that for a moment. It kind of makes my point about DU being hamstrung by what went before him.

 

I'm not sure there are right and wrong answers with this. You can make a case of sorts for both. I just think another change at manager level now buys you months more of disruption and uncertainty. If Rothwell thinks that is a risk worth taking, then that is his call. But it is also a very, very risky thing to do. What would you do if he sacks Unsworth, brings in someone else and they win one of their first ten games? Swap again?

[longtimeblue]

I've voted 'Give him time'. It's pretty subjective though. If it continued, I'd hope a change was made early new year.

[TheBigDog]

3 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

What would you do if he sacks Unsworth, brings in someone else and they win one of their first ten games? Swap again?

Or it could be that a new man wins nine of their first ten… we just don’t know.

 

There is no disputing that changing a manager so soon after his appointment is not conducive to building a settled side and playing approach,  however Unsworth, in my opinion, has to start delivering. 
How long will he get? Who knows?

 

Let me ask you a question:

 

If Unsworth fails to win any of the next six league games , do you think he should still be in charge for the away trip to Dorking on January 7? 
 

 

[Wardie]

The one thing that stands out in Basil's assessment is that we, like many others before us, underestimated the quality in this league.

[basilrobbie]

17 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

 

Let me ask you a question:

 

If Unsworth fails to win any of the next six league games , do you think he should still be in charge for the away trip to Dorking on January 7? 
 

 

 

I don't think six / eight / ten games matters.  Especially when you look at who those games are against. Any manager would have his work cut out winning many of those.  The question is whether the owner still buys into what the manager is trying to do.

 

I understand why you are so anxious. Relegation is a real possibility. But the long term future of the club is about more than the next five months. And the signs of sustained improvement you are looking for will be hard to come by on the back of nearly twenty years of under-achievement.

 

I realise it is easy for me. I don't have the emotional investment you have. But head over heart is what is needed, in my opinion.

 

 

[Dave_Og]

29 minutes ago, Wardie said:

The one thing that stands out in Basil's assessment is that we, like many others before us, underestimated the quality in this league.

 

Some did, some thought talk of promotion was, at best, fanciful.  I think the latter group were generally referred to as 'the consolidation lads'.

[BP1960]

29 minutes ago, Wardie said:

The one thing that stands out in Basil's assessment is that we, like many others before us, underestimated the quality in this league.

And the top teams in the Conference North are useful too.

[Lee Sinnott]

43 minutes ago, Wardie said:

The one thing that stands out in Basil's assessment is that we, like many others before us, underestimated the quality in this league.

The quality in the league has been shite. It's just that we have been worse than shite...

[League one forever]

2 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

 

I don't think six / eight / ten games matters.  Especially when you look at who those games are against. Any manager would have his work cut out winning many of those.  The question is whether the owner still buys into what the manager is trying to do.

 

I understand why you are so anxious. Relegation is a real possibility. But the long term future of the club is about more than the next five months. And the signs of sustained improvement you are looking for will be hard to come by on the back of nearly twenty years of under-achievement.

 

I realise it is easy for me. I don't have the emotional investment you have. But head over heart is what is needed, in my opinion.

 

 

 

The thing that I find baffling, is how fans conflate off field stuff with a managers ability to get results. We are in universal agreement that things will eventually turn with amount of fantastic work the club is doing on the infrastructure etc-  but that also seems to mean that we ignore diabolical results and largely piss poor performances- because the incumbent manager is part of the fabric or culture.  He’s not. He’s a football manager who sole job is get results- and then to be judged accordingly on those results. Bizarrely we don’t do that, we treat him as some sort of sporting director where we’ll only see the fruits of labour in 12/18 months time. It’s nonsense. 
 

Sawnsea and Brighton in particular find managers that fit the clubs policy and culture, but if they don’t get results- they’re out. 
 

The idea you employ a manager and effectively say- no matter what happens with results you’ll get 12/18 months is for the birds. As with every single manager,  at every single football club- if he doesn’t get results, he should get the boot. 

[basilrobbie]

18 minutes ago, League one forever said:

 

The thing that I find baffling, is how fans conflate off field stuff with a managers ability to get results. We are in universal agreement that things will eventually turn with amount of fantastic work the club is doing on the infrastructure etc-  but that also seems to mean that we ignore diabolical results and largely piss poor performances- because the incumbent manager is part of the fabric or culture.  He’s not. He’s a football manager who sole job is get results- and then to be judged accordingly on those results. Bizarrely we don’t do that, we treat him as some sort of sporting director where we’ll only see the fruits of labour in 12/18 months time. It’s nonsense. 
 

Sawnsea and Brighton in particular find managers that fit the clubs policy and culture, but if they don’t get results- they’re out. 
 

The idea you employ a manager and effectively say- no matter what happens with results you’ll get 12/18 months is for the birds. As with every single manager,  at every single football club- if he doesn’t get results, he should get the boot. 

Does that thinking apply to football? If you look at the top five Divisions (for the sake of argument), then only around one sixth of them will succeed in any given year (unless you count surviving in the EPL as a (financial success). Everyone else "fails" to one degree or another. It's not analogous to running a FTSE 500 company, for example.

[disjointed]

1 minute ago, basilrobbie said:

Does that thinking apply to football? If you look at the top five Divisions (for the sake of argument), then only around one sixth of them will succeed in any given year (unless you count surviving in the EPL as a (financial success). Everyone else "fails" to one degree or another. It's not analogous to running a FTSE 500 company, for example.

I would hope most on here realise that there has to be teams that fail, it just so happens its been us for a long time now. A little bit of success is due to us. 

[wiseowl]

2 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

The quality in the league has been shite. It's just that we have been worse than shite...

Agree.

 

Been to every game home and away (except Wrexham in the cup) - the standard of football is poor and no idea who is seeing otherwise. It just illustrates how poor we have become. basilrobbie - some of us are naffed off simply because, on the playing front, we have got worse under Unsworth - did not expect that. It better improve quickly otherwise fans will desert in droves - it's absolutely awful to watch.

[League one forever]

11 minutes ago, basilrobbie said:

Does that thinking apply to football? If you look at the top five Divisions (for the sake of argument), then only around one sixth of them will succeed in any given year (unless you count surviving in the EPL as a (financial success). Everyone else "fails" to one degree or another. It's not analogous to running a FTSE 500 company, for example.

You’re moving into a sideways debate there Baz, one in which everyone mostly fails because only a small fraction of clubs can do well. (IE playoff place or above) If I indulge your argument- I would be more than happy this season to averagely fail/be shit. However 1 win in 13 and moving from mid table to bottom four- isn’t average shit- It’s the shittest of the shit. 
 

He need results- and quickly. 

[TheBigDog]

4 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

Let me ask you a question:

 

If Unsworth fails to win any of the next six league games , do you think he should still be in charge for the away trip to Dorking on January 7? 
 

 

 

4 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

 

I don't think six / eight / ten games matters.  Especially when you look at who those games are against. Any manager would have his work cut out winning many of those.  The question is whether the owner still buys into what the manager is trying to do.

 

I understand why you are so anxious. Relegation is a real possibility. But the long term future of the club is about more than the next five months. And the signs of sustained improvement you are looking for will be hard to come by on the back of nearly twenty years of under-achievement.

 

I realise it is easy for me. I don't have the emotional investment you have. But head over heart is what is needed, in my opinion.

So your answer to the question is ‘Yes’?

[mcfluff1985]

Lot of people wanting Unsworth gone have changed their thought process on what breeds success. Under ALMO the general consensus was that with such shoddy ownership the team could never succeed. Now they aren't prepared to allow time while all that poor club management is undone and the background stuff gets worked on allowing the team to succeed in time. 12 games isn't enough. 25 isn't. It's a bit pathetic when you see some of the arguments for him going. Gone from wanting a nice club doing the right things to wanting instant success. Ridiculous 

[TheBigDog]

11 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Lot of people wanting Unsworth gone have changed their thought process on what breeds success. Under ALMO the general consensus was that with such shoddy ownership the team could never succeed. Now they aren't prepared to allow time while all that poor club management is undone and the background stuff gets worked on allowing the team to succeed in time. 12 games isn't enough. 25 isn't. It's a bit pathetic when you see some of the arguments for him going. Gone from wanting a nice club doing the right things to wanting instant success. Ridiculous 

I’m not sure that a lot of people want him gone just yet - more that a lot of people are frustrated/disappointed at his seeming inability to get his players to even get the basics right and his defensive approach to games. It has to change.

 

A question for you:

 

If Unsworth continues to fail to win games and we drop to the bottom of the league, do you still think we should stick by him?

[mcfluff1985]

3 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

I’m not sure that a lot of people want him gone just yet - more that a lot of people are frustrated/disappointed at his seeming inability to get his players to even get the basics right and his defensive approach to games. It has to change.

 

A question for you:

 

If Unsworth continues to fail to win games and we drop to the bottom of the league, do you still think we should stick by him?

I'd stick with him. Let him sign his players. Build from wherever that is. At some point someone needs time.

 

If he went now you'd be trying to ship out Sheridan and some of Unsworth signings

[League one forever]

11 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Lot of people wanting Unsworth gone have changed their thought process on what breeds success. Under ALMO the general consensus was that with such shoddy ownership the team could never succeed. Now they aren't prepared to allow time while all that poor club management is undone and the background stuff gets worked on allowing the team to succeed in time. 12 games isn't enough. 25 isn't. It's a bit pathetic when you see some of the arguments for him going. Gone from wanting a nice club doing the right things to wanting instant success. Ridiculous 

 

You keep peddling this convoluted nonsense and making arguments up in your head. Your last sentence perfectly summing this up. 
 

No manager could succeed under ALMO for very obvious reasons, there was little point in analysing the manager such was the toxicity. Fans didn’t go because there was no hope. 
 

We go down twice. 
 

Frank takes over and fans return in there thousands because there is a hope things will turn. The manager now has everything he asks for, and a wonderful board to work for. We are now back to what normal clubs can do- which is judge managers. Despite being given everything he wants, he is producing awful performances and results- and fans still turn up despite the shite, because they understand that with all the good things going on things will eventually turn- if not with Unsworth then next one- or the one after. 

Meanwhile you continue to make things up about fans wanting instant success, rely on blind hope that things will come good and make farcical claims that 25 games isn’t enough to judge a manager. Ridiculous. 

 

[LightDN123]

30 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Lot of people wanting Unsworth gone have changed their thought process on what breeds success. Under ALMO the general consensus was that with such shoddy ownership the team could never succeed. Now they aren't prepared to allow time while all that poor club management is undone and the background stuff gets worked on allowing the team to succeed in time. 12 games isn't enough. 25 isn't. It's a bit pathetic when you see some of the arguments for him going. Gone from wanting a nice club doing the right things to wanting instant success. Ridiculous 

Get a grip he’s won 1 in 12. He would have been sacked by now at clubs which are successful. It’s not ridiculous, it’s being aware of what is happening. We are a football club and have a manager with a less than a 10% win rate.