Lags Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 The standard of player (mainly) being signed is an upgrade on what Shez could bring in, however!!!. Until we get a midfield who try to tackle and not jockey from 2 yards, teams will still pass around and through us. It's glaring this happens throughout the entire game and unchecked will result in we need to score more than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 45 minutes ago, Lags said: The standard of player (mainly) being signed is an upgrade on what Shez could bring in, however!!!. Until we get a midfield who try to tackle and not jockey from 2 yards, teams will still pass around and through us. It's glaring this happens throughout the entire game and unchecked will result in we need to score more than them. Exactly right Lags, but it seems endemic throughout the team. Players close to 3 or 4 yards from players, then stop. From that distance there is plenty of room to make a pass around or to cross. There is “too close”, but you need to get close enough to be a big obstruction. Obviously it is more physical work as they may try to turn you and run, but closer mean the chance to tackle them as they try. It is often said on here that we don’t make many tackles. This IMO is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 46 minutes ago, Pidge said: Exactly right Lags, but it seems endemic throughout the team. Players close to 3 or 4 yards from players, then stop. From that distance there is plenty of room to make a pass around or to cross. There is “too close”, but you need to get close enough to be a big obstruction. Obviously it is more physical work as they may try to turn you and run, but closer mean the chance to tackle them as they try. It is often said on here that we don’t make many tackles. This IMO is why. It doesn't sound like the sort of thing that will be solved by a single signing. Given it was very evident in the first home game of the season, vs Dorking, its a bit weird that it is still ongoing despite so many changes of coaching and playing personnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 The Borehamwood winner is a prime example. Think its Tollitt who just lets his man go with no challenge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 8 hours ago, wiseowl said: England. I`ve witnessed the hype so many times over the years. Simple fact is we have had very few "world class players" in my lifetime. Gazza, undoubtedly, the pick of the very small bunch. As for the present team - with a central defensive partnership of Stones and Maguire - forget winning anything. Pickford weak too. Southgate? Safe pair of hands for the FA, of course. A winner? Never in a million years. We live in strange times when reaching a quarter or a semi-final etc. is deemed to be success. Boring, characterless and very predictable. I think that's a bit harsh on England, and maybe on Southgate also. England - we can be boring when the build-up is slow/sideways/backwards as against the USA. But equally, we play exciting stuff at other times and scored plenty of goals in this World Cup. Agree re Gazza, but I suspect Bellingham will go on to be one of the greats of any era or country, and he's far more disciplined than Gazza. Saka, Rice, Grealish and Foden are pretty impressive also. I don't expect us to win these tournaments - there's so much competition and you need luck as well as the players. I do expect a semi-final place as a minimum, given our heritage and resources. We were unlucky this time , against a very good French team who were on the ropes before that Giroud goal. As for Southgate, who do you replace him with? He's given these youngsters their chance, and they clearly believe in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: As for Southgate, who do you replace him with? He's given these youngsters their chance, and they clearly believe in him. I believe that the England manager should be English and I think it's a reasonable proposition to suggest that should be the same for, say, the top 25 nations. After all, the team, as a whole, is representing the country. There's a fair argument that lower ranked, developing, nations could be allowed latitude to appoint overseas coaches to raise standards. The complete disconnect with the last overseas England manager, Capello, is a good example of what happens when going for the apparent best man for the job. Part of Southgate's undeniable relative success must be that he has been part of the system for a good few years and clearly has bonds with mangy of the current squad. That's never going to develop with a hired gun who sees the players every couple of months or so. Others ma think differently, fair enough, but for the sake of debate which English coaches may be in the running if he goes? Howe & Potter perhaps? Can't see Howe giving up the Newcastle project when its going so well although I suppose if Chelsea are true to form, post the ownership change, Potter may be available sooner rather than later. Stepping up from the U21s is an obvious route to follow but it's hard to see that Lee Carsley has the right profile. If his assistant, Ashley Cole, is becoming an FA man then I'd be willing to take a punt that he'll be firmly in the running next time round. Steven Gerrard? I'd imagine he wants another crack at club management but who knows? One sure thing is that international management is very different to the club version so just looking at domestic results probably isn't much of a guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Southgate proper bores me, but he is a principled man who has led us from despair to the brink of glory so he deserves all our respect. his honesty about continuing in the role was brutally clever, even tho l trust the sincerity of his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: I think that's a bit harsh on England, and maybe on Southgate also. England - we can be boring when the build-up is slow/sideways/backwards as against the USA. But equally, we play exciting stuff at other times and scored plenty of goals in this World Cup. Agree re Gazza, but I suspect Bellingham will go on to be one of the greats of any era or country, and he's far more disciplined than Gazza. Saka, Rice, Grealish and Foden are pretty impressive also. I don't expect us to win these tournaments - there's so much competition and you need luck as well as the players. I do expect a semi-final place as a minimum, given our heritage and resources. We were unlucky this time , against a very good French team who were on the ropes before that Giroud goal. As for Southgate, who do you replace him with? He's given these youngsters their chance, and they clearly believe in him. Yeah, I'm not sure if @wiseowl has watched much of this world cup if he's described England as "boring, characterless and very predictable". France's main tactic they employed against our attacking threats was simply to foul. They did this relentlessly in the final third, including a blatant one that the ref missed and they went up the other end and scored from. That's a pretty big compliment of our style and threat. It was a close game between two top sides that France edged on fine margins. I do wonder if that sort of accusation comes about as a result of what Southgate and the players do and say outside of the 90 minutes as opposed to how they perform on the pitch. There seems to be a notion that winning international tournaments is the only marker for success/failure. And I suppose in a literal sense, that's correct. But this is something that happens every 4 years, and has multiple teams capable of winning. There's only been 8 teams who've ever won it! And our victory in 1966 came down to fine margins - would we have still won if the ball was deemed not to cross the line? As a nation, we were miles behind everyone in terms of how we play and coach and now we are starting to see a cultural change taking effect on the men's national team - only 6 years ago we were playing in a very outdated way. Southgate has led all this. We've won international tournaments at most age levels and also women's football. It seems only a matter of time til that translates through to the men's national team. Given we've continued to improve as a team/squad since he joined and the next tournament is only 18 months away, it seems only right he carries on to see if we can make that next improvement and actually win something. He clearly gives a shit about these players and also the England team long into the future, as opposed to an overpaid mercenary who happens to be flavour of the month. Sorry for the long England related rant on a latics thread, but I do think there are certain parallels to be drawn re long term planning and having to overhaul a culture and structure that is outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: led us from despair to the brink of glory But this is just the usual result-in fact we have done worse in this years competition than last time with arguable better players. This England team is not a good watch given the players we have-I put that down to the manager and his tactics, proper boring until we have to chase the game. Think Gerrard will be lucky to get another big club now after being found out that it was his 2 back up coaches that seem to have carried him thru in Scotland and Villa before they both left. Potter probably the best call when he gets binned at Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: But this is just the usual result-in fact we have done worse in this years competition than last time with arguable better players. This England team is not a good watch given the players we have-I put that down to the manager and his tactics, proper boring until we have to chase the game. Think Gerrard will be lucky to get another big club now after being found out that it was his 2 back up coaches that seem to have carried him thru in Scotland and Villa before they both left. Potter probably the best call when he gets binned at Chelsea. QF exit is hugely disappointing now whereas when he took over a World Cup QF would spark street parties. that is down to him, so lMO we have to put up with his hesitant in game management and respect it. l think he will go again with the aim of winning the Euro's and if he doesn't deliver on that he will, rightly, stand aside. even if (when) we lose the final on penalties to a nation that hates us. hopefully Howe has been sacked by then or Pep has applied for his UK passport. also, there's nobody available or plausible to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Monty Burns said: QF exit is hugely disappointing now whereas when he took over a World Cup QF would spark street parties. that is down to him, so lMO we have to put up with his hesitant in game management and respect it. l think he will go again with the aim of winning the Euro's and if he doesn't do that he will, righthly, stand aside. even if (when) we lose the final on penalties to a nation that hates us. hopefully Howe has been sacked by then or Pep has applied for his UK passport. also, there's nobody available or plausible to replace him. Bang on Monty. I think one of the key parts of Southgate's legacy will be that reaching the latter stages of tournaments has become the expected norm rather than something that ends in an open top bus. Once we have that mentality, it's kind of down to an odds thing that we end up winning something eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latics22 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 I don’t remember ever going into every game thinking we will win! Keep him for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 When you go back to 2016 and the low of how we limped out against Iceland and compare it to how we narrowly went out to the world champions on Saturday and the results in between then it's clear great progress has been made. We are no longer technically or tactically inferior to other countries and in 2 years we will go into the euros in a good place. We are currently ranked 5th best side in the world it's probably about par that we reach the quarter finals. The same stage Brazil Holland and Portugal went out. 1 step further than Spain and 2 ahead of Germany and Belgium. The Italians didn't even qualify. All nations that we have looked at and Considered superior to us in recent times we've caught up with then and in some cases we've overtaken them. Between 1968 and 2016 England won 6 knockout games in total. Since 2018 Southgates England has won 6 knockout games as manager in 3 tournaments. So he has matched the previous 48 years in the last 4 years. Its not delivered a tournament win but he's out performed his predecessors considerably. We were also the top scorers in the group so the notion the football is "boring" is also drivel too. I wonder how many of those who want rid of Southgate were wanting rid of the 10 managers we went through during the Lemsagam era despite the fact it never solved the problem of winning more matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittles left foot Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: Its not delivered a tournament win but he's out performed his predecessors considerably. We were also the top scorers in the group so the notion the football is "boring" is also drivel too. I have no interest in what went before and fail to see any relevance to the current manager. Prefer to look forward. The Iran score rather distorts the goals scored argument although this team should be doing exactly that given the players at his disposal. The thing that gets me with GS is his inbuilt caution in every game-it happened against Italy in The Euros Final and he has done it again this time with the result us being eliminated a round earlier than the last World Cup. We have the players to take games to other teams rather than this sitting back and letting them come to us-only starting to play when we are behind or chasing a result. Do I see GS winning a competition-not really unless he learns from this and changes. Hope he does. 57 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: I wonder how many of those who want rid of Southgate were wanting rid of the 10 managers we went through during the Lemsagam era despite the fact it never solved the problem of winning more matches Talk about comparing apples and pears!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 28 minutes ago, whittles left foot said: I have no interest in what went before and fail to see any relevance to the current manager. Prefer to look forward. The Iran score rather distorts the goals scored argument although this team should be doing exactly that given the players at his disposal. The thing that gets me with GS is his inbuilt caution in every game-it happened against Italy in The Euros Final and he has done it again this time with the result us being eliminated a round earlier than the last World Cup. We have the players to take games to other teams rather than this sitting back and letting them come to us-only starting to play when we are behind or chasing a result. Do I see GS winning a competition-not really unless he learns from this and changes. Hope he does. Talk about comparing apples and pears!!!!!! I suppose if it doesn't suit the agenda you won't want to compare it. Iran are top 20 in the world like Senegal they are team we should be beating but they aren't total mugs. I'm not sure what game you were watching Saturday night but that wasn't an overly cautious England performance we took the game to the world champions and probably were the better team certainly in the second half. Why the Comparison quite simple really if something isn't right football fans default answer is blame the manager it probably always will be. It's not always as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 26 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: I suppose if it doesn't suit the agenda you won't want to compare it. Iran are top 20 in the world like Senegal they are team we should be beating but they aren't total mugs. I'm not sure what game you were watching Saturday night but that wasn't an overly cautious England performance we took the game to the world champions and probably were the better team certainly in the second half. Why the Comparison quite simple really if something isn't right football fans default answer is blame the manager it probably always will be. It's not always as simple as that. Iran also qualified ahead of South Korea who did pretty well too. Senegal, champions of Africa. Of the quarter finalists we were joint top scorers and only Morocco had conceded fewer. I honestly think we could with the world cup by beating Argentina, France, Spain and Italy and people would still call it questionable as we hadn't beaten Brazil and Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 48 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Iran also qualified ahead of South Korea who did pretty well too. Senegal, champions of Africa. Of the quarter finalists we were joint top scorers and only Morocco had conceded fewer. I honestly think we could with the world cup by beating Argentina, France, Spain and Italy and people would still call it questionable as we hadn't beaten Brazil and Germany. This... The bizarre thing of absolutely thrashing our national team no matter what Go and support San Marino FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 40 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: This... The bizarre thing of absolutely thrashing our national team no matter what Go and support San Marino FFS Can you support a country you're not from...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Can you support a country you're not from...? Well a lot of Man Utd fans are from no where near Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Well a lot of Man Utd fans are from no where near Manchester Good point, D... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanMarshall's Mullet Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Is this the Torquay thread? I didn't see Rooney against Wrexham at home in the league but thought Sunday was the best I've seen him this play since he was signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 hour ago, IanMarshall's Mullet said: Is this the Torquay thread? I didn't see Rooney against Wrexham at home in the league but thought Sunday was the best I've seen him this play since he was signed. Bullshit. He's already been written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 5 hours ago, latics22 said: I don’t remember ever going into every game thinking we will win! Keep him for me! Strange comment given that England's win rate in 2022 is 38% and we were relegated to UEFA Nations League B, less than 3 months ago, after the dismal loss against Italy and following the national team's worst run of form in over 8 years (including not scoring a goal from open play in 452 minutes). Appreciate it's all about opinions but we played "nobody" in the world cup - until we played a rather lack lustre France, who were there for the taking if we're honest. However, despite all the hype about our forward players, once again, we could not score from open play. Throw in that France's goals were partly down to the obvious weaknesses in our team (i.e. keeper and central defenders) and it ranks as a poor tournament for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Strange comment given that England's win rate in 2022 is 38% and we were relegated to UEFA Nations League B, less than 3 months ago, after the dismal loss against Italy and following the national team's worst run of form in over 8 years (including not scoring a goal from open play in 452 minutes). Appreciate it's all about opinions but we played "nobody" in the world cup - until we played a rather lack lustre France, who were there for the taking if we're honest. However, despite all the hype about our forward players, once again, we could not score from open play. Throw in that France's goals were partly down to the obvious weaknesses in our team (i.e. keeper and central defenders) and it ranks as a poor tournament for us. What were you saying when we made the final of the Nations League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanMarshall's Mullet Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said: Bullshit. He's already been written off. Nice So you think me saying that it was the best I’ve seen him play is untrue or as you say bullshit? Well I can assure you I did think that. Can I respectfully suggest you read posts properly and understand them before replying because I said it was the best I’ve actually seen him play. I didn’t say he was brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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