Micky Mellon's Retained and Released List

[Dave_Og]

My take on the failure to try out youth platers in the first team.  I have no views on an individual players as I've never seen a youth team game.

 

Mellon should absolutely be aware of what we have and see it  with his own eyes

 

He has no track record (I don't think) of pitching in youth rather than relying on experience.  I suspect this is one leopard who won't change his spots

 

Presumably he was advised that Kofi Moore was ready for an outing at senior level as he's the only one that's appeared.  As he looked totally lost then maybe he's assumed that the others aren't even at his level.  However, it now turns out that his 'trial' came in the wake of Barnetgate in a terrible team performance so who knows what effect hat had.

 

I'm guessing that even at our level there it is still a big step up from youth football on a park pitch

 

I may be wrong here (often am) but I don't think a single player from our youth system has made any great impact at a higher level since Tom Hamer. (Vaughan can be argued for but the best he seems to be managing is sub appearances in L1).  It really does suggest that we've struggled to either attract or develop talent in recent years

 

it may be the case that we have some decent prospects and regardless of what he thinks I do have respect for BP's experience but it does seem unlikely that a conveyor belt will be shifting youth team players to the first team squad any time soon

 

Edited April 29 by Dave_Og

[simplythemostimportantkick]

2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

they play on a field - it wouldn't be hard to spot him

Dan Gardner plays on the pitch (apparently) yet he’s quite difficult to spot until a contract is in the offing…

[Littlemoor Lad]

Have they all gone yet?

[hinchy]

2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

My take on the failure to try out youth platers in the first team.  I have no views on an individual players as I've never seen a youth team game.

 

Mellon should absolutely be aware of what we have and see it  with his own eyes

 

He has no track record (I don't think) of pitching in youth rather than relying on experience.  I suspect this is one leopard who won't change his spots

 

Presumably he was advised that Kofi Moore was ready for an outing at senior level as he's the only one that's appeared.  As he looked totally lost then maybe he's assumed that the others aren't even at his level.  However, it now turns out that his 'trial' came in the wake of Barnetgate in a terrible team performance so who knows what effect hat had.

 

I'm guessing that even at our level there it is still a big step up from youth football on a park pitch

 

I may be wrong here (often am) but I don't think a single player from our youth system has made any great impact at a higher level since Tom Hamer. (Vaughan can be argued for but the best he seems to be managing is sub appearances in L1).  It really does suggest that we've struggled to either attract or develop talent in recent years

 

it may be the case that we have some decent prospects and regardless of what he thinks I do have respect for BP's experience but it does seem unlikely that a conveyor belt will be shifting youth team players to the first team squad any time soon

 

Many got snapped up before they had played a game for us. Emmerson, Simms to name two. I know we sold a young (12-14yo) kid to Liverpool in last couple of years and one to Newcastle but names escape me. Dare say there have been others. If and a big if they come good can be worth a lot to the club. Not sure how its structured whether it was a clean break and those monies go with the lemmies or corney (whoever owned the club at the time) or if it still comes back to oafc.

[Dave_Og]

50 minutes ago, hinchy said:

Many got snapped up before they had played a game for us. Emmerson, Simms to name two. I know we sold a young (12-14yo) kid to Liverpool in last couple of years and one to Newcastle but names escape me. Dare say there have been others. If and a big if they come good can be worth a lot to the club. Not sure how its structured whether it was a clean break and those monies go with the lemmies or corney (whoever owned the club at the time) or if it still comes back to oafc.

 

But none have broken through anywhere.  I know Simms is a local lad but I don't think he was ever with us was he?

[Londonboy]

3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

My take on the failure to try out youth platers in the first team.  I have no views on an individual players as I've never seen a youth team game.

 

Mellon should absolutely be aware of what we have and see it  with his own eyes

 

He has no track record (I don't think) of pitching in youth rather than relying on experience.  I suspect this is one leopard who won't change his spots

 

Presumably he was advised that Kofi Moore was ready for an outing at senior level as he's the only one that's appeared.  As he looked totally lost then maybe he's assumed that the others aren't even at his level.  However, it now turns out that his 'trial' came in the wake of Barnetgate in a terrible team performance so who knows what effect hat had.

 

I'm guessing that even at our level there it is still a big step up from youth football on a park pitch

 

I may be wrong here (often am) but I don't think a single player from our youth system has made any great impact at a higher level since Tom Hamer. (Vaughan can be argued for but the best he seems to be managing is sub appearances in L1).  It really does suggest that we've struggled to either attract or develop talent in recent years

 

it may be the case that we have some decent prospects and regardless of what he thinks I do have respect for BP's experience but it does seem unlikely that a conveyor belt will be shifting youth team players to the first team squad any time soon

 

 

You are correct and all are fair points Dave.

 

At Woking where my son played for 2 years, out of 22 Academy players at U18 level, only 2 or 3 got contracts for the next 2 years. The rest would be released.

 

Then out of those given contrats only a couple get anywhere close to first team action.

 

The U21/23s seem to have some great players when you watch them play U21/23 football, but as soon as you put them into "mens" football at national league level, very few can handle the physicality or the addional pace the game is played at, and end up being released to play in the Isthmian regional divisions around step 3 or 4...or below.

 

More opportunity is given maybe at clubs who really rely on youth coming through into the first team. We just dont in this division and opt for signing so called tried and tested players....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by Londonboy

[NJ33]

Of the ones that have broken through to play for the first team, its very mixed bag.

In the last three seasons we have had:

Kofi Moore

 

Harry Vaughan

Junior Luamba

Benny Couto

 

Vani da Silva

Isaac Modi

Will Sutton

 

2 still here 

2 playing higher up (one we received money for)

3 playing below 

[Dave_Og]

7 minutes ago, NJ33 said:

Of the ones that have broken through to play for the first team, its very mixed bag.

In the last three seasons we have had:

Kofi Moore

 

Harry Vaughan

Junior Luamba

Benny Couto

 

Vani da Silva

Isaac Modi

Will Sutton

 

2 still here 

2 playing higher up (one we received money for)

3 playing below 

Luamba doesn't appear on the Salford first team squad list on their website

 

Men's Team | Official Salford City FC website

[NJ33]

signed a new two year contract extension this season 

[Dave_Og]

3 minutes ago, NJ33 said:

signed a new two year contract extension this season 

 

Must have ticked the no publicity box

[Crusoe]

If the club knowingly hired a manager who doesn't believe in trying out youth team players, then the recruitment process is also to blame.

 

At the same time, the record of the players who've left us doesn't suggest there's a stellar production line we're missing out on. I know, there may be some great prospects right now. But how many times have we heard that? I'm still waiting for Carlos Roca, Ryan Sugden and Brendy Glackin to come good.

 

Still, it would have been nice to at least try a few when there's nothing realistically left to play for.

[NJ33]

I dont disagree, but having said that kofi moore looked absolutely lost when he played this season

[Dave_Og]

17 minutes ago, NJ33 said:

I dont disagree, but having said that kofi moore looked absolutely lost when he played this season

As per my earlier comment, so did the entire team that day.  For reasons which have recently become apparent (if not very clear!)

[BP1960]

Many of the succesful players I've recommended have been at non league or even Sunday league level.

Some have great ability as teenagers, but prefer off the field activities (read Lee Trundle's book on his heavy drinking as a youth) and how he saw light he could be a league player at 25yo).

I like finding hidden gems and many have a story of failure when young, but when they  changed their ways and added determination it changed their lives.

It can happen in reverse when some older talented players lose the will to carry on and finish at a good level earlier than they should have like George Best.

That's why I don't care what level they are are playing at, if they have ability and desire I will follow up.

Not all make it, but it's great to see when they do.

I've watched the diminutive 24yo attacking midfielder Jack Hazelhurst  recently of Chorley twice, the first time, the opposition played good passing football he dominated, but the second was against a big tough kick and rush team with 90% of the ball in the air and he was less prominent - despite his willingness to run into space.

I think he could play in the EFL as he's similar to Harry Vaughan, but not sure if he will ever get the chance.

 

 

 

[nzlatic]

I’m not convinced that putting youth team players on the pitch in those last few games with the atmosphere as it was would have been a good decision. 
 

Obviously no abuse would have been directed at them but they might have felt the pressure of that atmosphere. Plus the way the rest of the team were playing I don’t think would have done them any favours either. I’m more interested in what we do next with our promising youths, if any get contracts over the summer and if they get game time in the first team if everything about the club is more positive next season. 

[BP1960]

Just now, nzlatic said:

I’m not convinced that putting youth team players on the pitch in those last few games with the atmosphere as it was would have been a good decision. 
 

Obviously no abuse would have been directed at them but they might have felt the pressure of that atmosphere. Plus the way the rest of the team were playing I don’t think would have done them any favours either. I’m more interested in what we do next with our promising youths, if any get contracts over the summer and if they get game time in the first team if everything about the club is more positive next season. 

 

Yes I can see that  aspect, but there's only one way to find out and that's to try them.

Remember how Chris Taylor relished his debut.

[nzlatic]

8 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Yes I can see that  aspect, but there's only one way to find out and that's to try them.

Remember how Chris Taylor relished his debut.

Yes I’d like to see more coming through. Maybe we’ll see a few in action pre season. 

[Dave_Og]

7 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Yes I’d like to see more coming through. Maybe we’ll see a few in action pre season. 

 

Again, can only be perception but our ability to recruit youngsters must have been further compromised by the last few years and the demise of the academy (hopefully temporary) won't help in the longer run

[Pidge]

4 hours ago, simplythemostimportantkick said:

Dan Gardner plays on the pitch (apparently) yet he’s quite difficult to spot until a contract is in the offing…

That’s a bit harsh as he either wasn’t selected or was injured most of the season. He was fit and selected for a few games at the end of the season because he was one of the only few players that were actually trying, and here we see someone interpreting that effort as “playing for a contract”. Wow! A good example of being a loyal supportive fan.

[Bobledgersheart]

16 minutes ago, Pidge said:

That’s a bit harsh as he either wasn’t selected or was injured most of the season. He was fit and selected for a few games at the end of the season because he was one of the only few players that were actually trying, and here we see someone interpreting that effort as “playing for a contract”. Wow! A good example of being a loyal supportive fan.

You can't escape the fact that it looks a bit suspicious as he "recovers" from injury as the season is winding up though !

 

FWIW I'd retain him on a pay as you play basis.

[GlossopLatic]

We will do well to get 20 games out of Dan Gardner next season I'd rather we spent the money on a player we are not having to constantly patch up.

[mcfluff1985]

4 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Again, can only be perception but our ability to recruit youngsters must have been further compromised by the last few years and the demise of the academy (hopefully temporary) won't help in the longer run

Anyone with good ability will be hoovered up by big clubs and churned out through their academies. We have a lad in under 8s who is going down to Everton and also has Liverpool watching him. He's ridiculously good for a 7 year old but given the choice, who would pick Oldham over any club in the top 3 or 4 divisions at a young age?

[Pidge]

13 hours ago, Bobledgersheart said:

You can't escape the fact that it looks a bit suspicious as he "recovers" from injury as the season is winding up though !

 

FWIW I'd retain him on a pay as you play basis.

Why are you suspicious of one of the players who actually runs, tackles and plays forward, as opposed to those who can’t be bothered?

 

Yes he is fragile and is he worth a new contract for that reason, but he is not one of the “I don’t care if I play” brigade.

[TheBigDog]

28 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Why are you suspicious of one of the players who actually runs, tackles and plays forward, as opposed to those who can’t be bothered?

 

Yes he is fragile and is he worth a new contract for that reason, but he is not one of the “I don’t care if I play” brigade.

I suppose the point is that he only puts in the fort when he is looking for a new contract maybe? 

[Pidge]

16 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

I suppose the point is that he only puts in the fort when he is looking for a new contract maybe? 

I get that’s what he is saying big dog. I don’t agree with it.

14 hours ago, Pidge said:

That’s a bit harsh as he either wasn’t selected or was injured most of the season. He was fit and selected for a few games at the end of the season because he was one of the only few players that were actually trying, and here we see someone interpreting that effort as “playing for a contract”. Wow! A good example of being a loyal supportive fan.