Dave_Og Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, League one forever said: People keep saying he would improve us. . . without anything to back it up. You’re general point about the state of the defence etc, of course I agree with. I know that anything can be demonstrated with stats but surely he would have improved last night's defensive performance. Hell, my centre half career spanned three seasons in the Crystal Palace and District Sunday League in the late 80s and I think I could have improved things last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick26 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: That’s as poor a goalkeeping performance as you’re likely to see!! I’ve watched their 2nd goal over and over and still can’t fathom out how Lawlor has managed to let that in! Weak as piss!!.....He could have saved it without leaving the deck...he’s 6’4” FFS! Nowhere near the worst we've had - think he was impeded by the big number 4 for the second goal and the other 3 were down to a combination of Bahamboula, Badan, Jombati, Pidge and DKD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, League one forever said: Sorry, I thought the 3 games he missed were in the cup. Still 34 of 37 league games is a good barometer? No? The fact is, his record in an Oldham shirt is wank. People keep saying he would improve us. . . without anything to back it up. The argument ‘he would help us to concede 1.5’ instead two goals a game is clutching. He played ‘nearly’ every game in the second worst defensive record. You’re always a better player out of the side, and as Branson’s pickle said a few posts back, Wheater has suddenly become baresi. It’s comical. You’re general point about the state of the defence etc, of course I agree with. I would say the concensus is that he would improve the defence. I don't see this claim that there is hyperbole putting him up there amongst the greats. The fact is that neither the manager nor the fans have had the opportunity to find out and back up that opinion because of the fuckwits running our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.O.JONES Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just watched the highlights (bad terminology) again, Bamhamboula at fault for the first one by just letting Cargill walk behind him. Lawlor 100% for the second. Lawlor for the third, not commanding his area and not helped by Jambutties inability to jump. Pidge and Jambutty responsible for the fourth, just a simple ball in between them, schoolboy defending. It needs sorting quick, if supporters can see it and management at all levels can't it's a bad day. Get a grip someone, I'd keep Bamhamboula and coach him to track back but the other three would be dog food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 27 minutes ago, nzlatic said: I'm not saying he'd be the difference between 17th and promotion, who knows and it is a pointless argument anyway as he won't play for us again. But it's an absolute disgrace the situation with our defence hasn't been resolved. Disgrace that AL/Mo haven't negotiated a solution - either a route back to him being available for selection, or negotiated him out of the club in January. Disgrace that Kewell is not beating down Mo's door to demand he be available or a replacement found in January. Disgrace that we're having to leave out one of our better (if not best) defenders because we've signed too many on loan. I'm sure Wheater isn't totally blameless in all this, but the responsibility falls on the club to sort the squad out. We have some really good attacking players to watch who are comfortable attacking at speed and running at defences with the ball. But it's totally wasted by the shocking state of our defence. Was furious watching that last night, especially after listening to Kewell dismiss any concerns over the defence in the Trust interview. Good post Agree with most of this nzlatic Sad really that such an experienced footballer will only be remembered at our club for sitting out a season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Magic Mikey said: I would say the concensus is that he would improve the defence. I don't see this claim that there is hyperbole putting him up there amongst the greats. The fact is that neither the manager nor the fans have had the opportunity to find out and back up that opinion because of the fuckwits running our club. Forget the malaise at the club Mike. We all agree on that. Has Wheater been a good player for our club? My eyes tell he hasn’t. His record suggests he hasn’t. There is nothing to back up he would improve us other than- ‘He used to be good once.’ Or ‘he must be better than jambutty’ it’s guesswork. At least I’m going off his actual record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Magic Mikey said: I would say the concensus is that he would improve the defence. I don't see this claim that there is hyperbole putting him up there amongst the greats. The fact is that neither the manager nor the fans have had the opportunity to find out and back up that opinion because of the fuckwits running our club. Quite. Really can't believe anyone would say he'd make no difference at all. Even just a small difference may have propelled us up the table. How many of our high scoring defeats have been by 1 goal? If some could have been turned into draws by a slight defensive improvement, or a few draws been turned into wins by 1 less conceded every now and again, that could be us right in amongst it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, League one forever said: Forget the malaise at the club Mike. We all agree on that. Has Wheater been a good player for our club? I was very disappointed with him, I was hoping for another Peter Clarke My eyes tell he hasn’t. His record suggests he hasn’t. I find the use of statistics like you used for a team game with so many variables ridiculous. It is almost, and this is going to sound harsh, Magisteresque. There is nothing to back up he would improve us other than- ‘He used to be good once.’ Or ‘he must be better than jambutty’ it’s guesswork. At least I’m going off his actual record. My point is I'm not guessing, I don't know and I'd like the opportunity to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, League one forever said: Forget the malaise at the club Mike. We all agree on that. Has Wheater been a good player for our club? My eyes tell he hasn’t. His record suggests he hasn’t. There is nothing to back up he would improve us other than- ‘He used to be good once.’ Or ‘he must be better than jambutty’ it’s guesswork. At least I’m going off his actual record. The question is not whether Wheater has been good for us, or whether he's lived up to his previous career or reputation. It's whether he would improve our defence now. Even if we take your 57 from 37 games, that's 1.54 goals per game with Wheater last season. We've now conceded 50 from 27, that's 1.85 goals per game without Wheater this season. Doesn't prove anything at all, but suggests it may be worth giving him a go. Or, if not, then negotiating him out of the club and signing a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I honestly don’t think Wheater would improve us enough to make much of a difference. We are crap collectively and individually and haven’t improved at all over the course of the season in fact we have probably got worse. I never once saw Wheater marshalling/organising our defence in the way Peter Clarke did, which is what we really need!! I just cannot for the life of me understand the loaning of yet another midfielder (it’s painfully obvious to everyone that defenders are the priority) when we can only have 5 in a match day squad. Just who is making these ridiculous decisions after AL himself had said previously we would not be going heavy on the loan system this season and relying more on the academy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 And I would definitely have Adams as captain because Pidge is another that seemingly shirks any sort of responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, Magic Mikey said: 12 minutes ago, nzlatic said: The question is not whether Wheater has been good for us, or whether he's lived up to his previous career or reputation. It's whether he would improve our defence now. Even if we take your 57 from 37 games, that's 1.54 goals per game with Wheater last season. We've now conceded 50 from 27, that's 1.85 goals per game without Wheater this season. Doesn't prove anything at all, but suggests it may be worth giving him a go. Or, if not, then negotiating him out of the club and signing a replacement. We’ll have agree to disagree on this one I think. He may make a slight difference, but if it’s about him helping us finishing 13th instead of 16th then it’s all a bit pointless to me. We want players who will push towards the top 6, and he’s isn’t one of them IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott2 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: And I would definitely have Adams as captain because Pidge is another that seemingly shirks any sort of responsibility. Not sure he shirks responsibility, I just don't think he is good enough at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, League one forever said: He may make a slight difference, but if it’s about him helping us finishing 13th instead of 16th then it’s all a bit pointless to me. Maybe we'd finish 12th and be in the top half of a division for the first time in about a decade; that would be worth an open top bus tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, League one forever said: He may make a slight difference, but if it’s about him helping us finishing 13th instead of 16th then it’s all a bit pointless to me. We want players who will push towards the top 6, and he’s isn’t one of them IMO. So if we don't finish in the top 7 (and presumably outside the bottom 2) it's all irrelevant? What about trying to convince better players in the summer? Increase season ticket sales? Help with the commercial side of things? A side finishing 8th-12th is going to help all the above more than a side finishing 16th-22nd surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, League one forever said: We’ll have agree to disagree on this one I think. He may make a slight difference, but if it’s about him helping us finishing 13th instead of 16th then it’s all a bit pointless to me. We want players who will push towards the top 6, and he’s isn’t one of them IMO. We'll definitely never agree on it as we've had this debate a few times now! We're 1 point off 13th, so barely any difference to where we are now. But we're only 9 points off the play offs. If we had a better central defender (Wheater or another) who could have cut out 6 of the 50 goals we've conceded, that could have made up those 9 points. 3 draws into wins, 3 defeats into draws. It's criminal it wasn't resolved in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, nzlatic said: We'll definitely never agree on it as we've had this debate a few times now! We're 1 point off 13th, so barely any difference to where we are now. But we're only 9 points off the play offs. If we had a better central defender (Wheater or another) who could have cut out 6 of the 50 goals we've conceded, that could have made up those 9 points. 3 draws into wins, 3 defeats into draws. It's criminal it wasn't resolved in January. If we had better defenders would we have been as attack minded though? It's all guesswork really. People get too hung up on league positions, they only really matter at the very top or bottom, you could end up on 5 points less than 9th place and finish 16th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: So if we don't finish in the top 7 (and presumably outside the bottom 2) it's all irrelevant? What about trying to convince better players in the summer? Increase season ticket sales? Help with the commercial side of things? A side finishing 8th-12th is going to help all the above more than a side finishing 16th-22nd surely? Is anyone really thinking I'm not buying a season ticket if we finish 17th but I definitely am if we finish 10th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, deyres42 said: Is anyone really thinking I'm not buying a season ticket if we finish 17th but I definitely am if we finish 10th? It's more around assessing likelihood of a promotion push next season - finishing 10th is more promising in that regard than finishing 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otid Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 We have at best a mid table squad. The only way such a squad can challenge for a play off spot is with a motivational type manager/head coch who can wring out a collective effort greater than the sum of the parts. We don't have such a manager/head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, League one forever said: We want players who will push towards the top 6, and he’s isn’t one of them IMO. We don’t have 11 of those never mind one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: We don’t have 11 of those never mind one Mac and Baha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, deyres42 said: If we had better defenders would we have been as attack minded though? It's all guesswork really. Of course it's all guesswork. But seeing as we're down in 17th and showing no signs of the consistency needed to try and challenge for promotion I'd be up for us giving it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Of course it's all guesswork. But seeing as we're down in 17th and showing no signs of the consistency needed to try and challenge for promotion I'd be up for us giving it a go. We were second favourites for relegation pre season, I don’t think anybody of sane mind was thinking we'd be anywhere near the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, deyres42 said: We were second favourites for relegation pre season, I don’t think anybody of sane mind was thinking we'd be anywhere near the top. Trying to understand your point but struggling. We're doing a bit better than expected so no point trying to do better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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