yarddog73 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 14 minutes ago, League one forever said: I had to smile when Micky said recently about the squad. It’s frustrating because I’d like to do more and a lot of players would love to come- but we have to move some players on. Yeah- I bet loads of players are desperate to wear the owl on their chest. . . and the fact we offer relatively fantastic contracts isn’t even discussed in football circles. Problem with statements like that is some players who he may feel he needs to go to if things don't improve might be resentful, Kitching as well is good friends with Alex Reid, he's not been himself since Reid was effectively ostracized, it may be coincidence but we have plenty of sulky players who appear to be going through the motions at the minute and performing under levels previously achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, yarddog73 said: Problem with statements like that is some players who he may feel he needs to go to if things don't improve might be resentful, Kitching as well is good friends with Alex Reid, he's not been himself since Reid was effectively ostracized, it may be coincidence but we have plenty of sulky players who appear to be going through the motions at the minute and performing under levels previously achieved. Yep, very high turnover of players never works. (QPR when Tony Fernandez first came in, Chelsea at the minute) Players who have done well can become fringe players to the new signings. It’s hard to keep everyone happy and cliques form. Resentment builds- imagine being Fondop and watching Garner. He literally offered nothing. Mikey comes on and he at least looks a bit of a threat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 9 minutes ago, League one forever said: Yep, very high turnover of players never works. (QPR when Tony Fernandez first came in, Chelsea at the minute) Players who have done well can become fringe players to the new signings. It’s hard to keep everyone happy and cliques form. Resentment builds- imagine being Fondop and watching Garner. He literally offered nothing. Mikey comes on and he at least looks a bit of a threat. To Fondop' credit I often wonder why he keeps putting his body on the line, not one manager has really backed him yet they always end up turning to him at some stage, imagine being benched in favour of some of the dross we've brought in over the past couple of seasons. Going back to the thread title my unpopular belief is if Royle had backed Shez as he should instead of his pal we would have spent half the money and been no worse off, I'm absolutely sure about that. I know we used to call him Shezasorus but some of these managers we've had since predate even his tactics. Edited February 4 by yarddog73 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 7 hours ago, spanishfly said: Hi NZ and thank you for replying. My point, though, was about Garner being seen by you as a replacement for Stones and an upgrade on Fondop. I fail to see much logic in signing a player on a permanent who will be approaching 38 years old when his contract is up. From the little I have seen of Latics so far, we lack physicality, energy and desire. It's a poor standard of football this league. If the plan is to just get promoted out of this league quick, so throwing lots of money around now then get some big, physical lads in, a cultured midfielder and play 4 4 2. Once promoted re-jig it. Simple really. Woking was a classic "men against boys" debacle. Too many players in our team who are just brushed off the ball (edit : early days but I hope Walker, Sachdev and Hammond don't end up in this category but they are not physical types that's for sure)). I`m trying to get up to speed with players and I have tried to watch a couple closely to get to know them the past 2 games. I always say Ged Keegan was the worst midfielder I have ever seen for Latics. He was ineffective and always passing sideways and backwards. Lundstrum reminds me of him and he might even trump Ged Keegan. Who is signing such poor quality if we are supposed to want to go up quickly? I'd take a shit Ged Keegan in today's team every day of the week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 16 hours ago, spanishfly said: Once promoted re-jig it. Simple really. I just wanted to pick up on this snippet. I disagree on this, the likes of Wrexham, Stockport and others before them have built sides to escape this division and instantly push on. That's the way to go. As for the rest of your points I see the merit in them to a degree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Lags said: I just wanted to pick up on this snippet. I disagree on this, the likes of Wrexham, Stockport and others before them have built sides to escape this division and instantly push on. That's the way to go. As for the rest of your points I see the merit in them to a degree. It seems a reasonable view that promotion this season would be an unexpected bonus but that the investment seen makes it a very clear objective for next. But what one would assume to be our two principal strikers will be 34 & 36, and 35 & 37 in L2 should we get there, so not an obvious duo to push on in L2. Hopefully Garner shows his worth but I really can't see what strategy was involved in his signing. Edited February 5 by Dave_Og 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 hours ago, League one forever said: Yep, very high turnover of players never works. (QPR when Tony Fernandez first came in, Chelsea at the minute) Players who have done well can become fringe players to the new signings. It’s hard to keep everyone happy and cliques form. Resentment builds- imagine being Fondop and watching Garner. He literally offered nothing. Mikey comes on and he at least looks a bit of a threat. Apart from slotting in Norwood for a chance he should have taken to win the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: It seems a reasonable view that promotion this season would be an unexpected bonus but that the investment seen makes it a very clear objective for next. But what one would assume to be our two principal strikers will be 34 & 36, and 35 & 37 in L2 should we get there, so not an obvious duo to push on in L2. Hopefully Garner shows his worth but I really can't see what strategy was involved in his signing. One of the big criticisms of this side has been mental fragility. Garner ticks all the boxes in terms of experience, leadership, mental strength on and off the pitch. Plus he comes with a very good playing pedigree at a much higher level than where we are now. You don't get that sort of player to drop down from league 1 if they're 27, without paying huge money. Except Conlon. Another criticism of this side has been the lack of creativity in central midfield. And leadership, mental strength, promotion experience etc. Conlon ticks all those boxes. But you don't get that sort of player to drop from league 1 if they have been playing regularly and are 100% match fit and ready to go instantly, without paying huge money. We also desperately needed an attacking right back. And there have been many calls for us to get loan players from the premier league. Sachdev ticks those boxes. Unfortunately, you don't get those things without them coming with very little game time or match experience. These are 3 key signings, all with 2 things in common - they tick the boxes of what most people would have said we were short of AND they will need several games to bed in. Dallas is seen by some as an unnecessary additional striker signing but I think the club knew full well what was going on with James Norwood and his injury (plus knowing he was likely to get a 2 match ban) so rather than falling back on the squad strikers they signed someone on loan who can be an instant replacement. Strategy wise, they all make sense to me. But I don't think we can really say with certainty one way or the other whether they're good signings until we've given them a few games to settle in and get up to speed. As for next season with Garner, at his age we may not be expecting him to play 90 mins per game. But we'll know more after the summer. But as a squad player we'd have someone who will be driving everyone forward rather than what we have now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 26 minutes ago, nzlatic said: One of the big criticisms of this side has been mental fragility. Garner ticks all the boxes in terms of experience, leadership, mental strength on and off the pitch. Plus he comes with a very good playing pedigree at a much higher level than where we are now. You don't get that sort of player to drop down from league 1 if they're 27, without paying huge money. Except Conlon. Another criticism of this side has been the lack of creativity in central midfield. And leadership, mental strength, promotion experience etc. Conlon ticks all those boxes. But you don't get that sort of player to drop from league 1 if they have been playing regularly and are 100% match fit and ready to go instantly, without paying huge money. We also desperately needed an attacking right back. And there have been many calls for us to get loan players from the premier league. Sachdev ticks those boxes. Unfortunately, you don't get those things without them coming with very little game time or match experience. These are 3 key signings, all with 2 things in common - they tick the boxes of what most people would have said we were short of AND they will need several games to bed in. Dallas is seen by some as an unnecessary additional striker signing but I think the club knew full well what was going on with James Norwood and his injury (plus knowing he was likely to get a 2 match ban) so rather than falling back on the squad strikers they signed someone on loan who can be an instant replacement. Strategy wise, they all make sense to me. But I don't think we can really say with certainty one way or the other whether they're good signings until we've given them a few games to settle in and get up to speed. As for next season with Garner, at his age we may not be expecting him to play 90 mins per game. But we'll know more after the summer. But as a squad player we'd have someone who will be driving everyone forward rather than what we have now. These are all professional footballers who have all had a preseason and trained every day since. Even if not quite match fit they should at least be showing for an hour or so then maybe subbed off when tiring. It doesn’t constitute hoof mode from minute one. Against Woking recently we hoofed it without success throughout the whole of the 1st half and I was certain the tactics would change in the 2nd half but they didn’t. Every single team in this division seems to pass the ball much better than we do. How can it be that the likes of Dorking, Fylde, Ebbsfleet & Woking, who are all in the bottom 6, out pass us…it doesn’t make sense! Who knows maybe they are following instructions? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: These are all professional footballers who have all had a preseason and trained every day since. Even if not quite match fit they should at least be showing for an hour or so then maybe subbed off when tiring. It doesn’t constitute hoof mode from minute one. Against Woking recently we hoofed it without success throughout the whole of the 1st half and I was certain the tactics would change in the 2nd half but they didn’t. Every single team in this division seems to pass the ball much better than we do. How can it be that the likes of Dorking, Fylde, Ebbsfleet & Woking, who are all in the bottom 6, out pass us…it doesn’t make sense! Who knows maybe they are following instructions? Match fitness/sharpness and general fitness are different things. Tactics though, that's another issue and isn't something I'm going to defend. There is a lot to be questioned about the last couple of games. In Conlon we have someone who can get on the ball and affect the play. I would have liked Hammond to come on for Sheron and Conlon to play further up, rather than bringing Dallas on and playing him behind the strikers. I think the teams at the bottom are very disciplined when it comes to getting back in behind the ball when we're in possession, giving us less space to play in than Barnet for example. But we need to find a way to counter that. Conlon has scored a lot of goals from distance, but rarely gets the ball 25-30 yards out for him to have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Popular belief: They are excellent in training. Reality: They are hopeless on match days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Popular belief: They are excellent in training. Reality: They are hopeless on match days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, dannyboy55555 said: Apart from slotting in Norwood for a chance he should have taken to win the game. Blow me down - he passed to a team mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Why can’t we pass the football ? It’s baffling and been like this for over 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 How about this one for an unpopular opinion - Benachour would have got more points than Sheridan between January and May 2022... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: How about this one for an unpopular opinion - Benachour would have got more points than Sheridan between January and May 2022... No he wouldn’t have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, League one forever said: Blow me down - he passed to a team mate. So he offered something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: No he wouldn’t have. In your popular opinion... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: How about this one for an unpopular opinion - Benachour would have got more points than Sheridan between January and May 2022... As the entitled modern saying goes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Those based on credible data generally carry more weight Edited February 5 by Dave_Og 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 45 minutes ago, dannyboy55555 said: So he offered something If one pass in ninety minutes is barometer for a contribution - yes he offered something. In my view one pass for someone of his supposed calibre and experience is nowhere near good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, nzlatic said: Match fitness/sharpness and general fitness are different things. Tactics though, that's another issue and isn't something I'm going to defend. There is a lot to be questioned about the last couple of games. In Conlon we have someone who can get on the ball and affect the play. I would have liked Hammond to come on for Sheron and Conlon to play further up, rather than bringing Dallas on and playing him behind the strikers. I think the teams at the bottom are very disciplined when it comes to getting back in behind the ball when we're in possession, giving us less space to play in than Barnet for example. But we need to find a way to counter that. Conlon has scored a lot of goals from distance, but rarely gets the ball 25-30 yards out for him to have a go. You're quite right about match fitness and sharpness, it begs the question then why we are collecting more players when the ones we've got waiting in the wings are getting zero game time and appear rusty when called upon, is that all part of the plan?. We could probably field second eleven that could compete at this level twiddling their thumbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, League one forever said: If one pass in ninety minutes is barometer for a contribution - yes he offered something. In my view one pass for someone of his supposed calibre and experience is nowhere near good enough. Clearly made more than one pass. I just don't agree that he offered absolutely nothing that's all. Didn't play well granted but his first game for the club. Think we all need to chill a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 17 hours ago, yarddog73 said: Problem with statements like that is some players who he may feel he needs to go to if things don't improve might be resentful, Kitching as well is good friends with Alex Reid, he's not been himself since Reid was effectively ostracized, it may be coincidence but we have plenty of sulky players who appear to be going through the motions at the minute and performing under levels previously achieved. this is ridiculous but l won't ridicule. Kitch plays every minute of every game and still manages to be a 7/10. on the off chance we make sumat happen or whip in a cross it is him doing it. making up a total misread then adding it to a total lie and linking in a bonkers theory makes it look like you are in a farm with petermike, bazza the hut and bazza chuckle. l'll see you all in about a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, dannyboy55555 said: Clearly made more than one pass. I just don't agree that he offered absolutely nothing that's all. Didn't play well granted but his first game for the club. Think we all need to chill a bit. Honestly mate- I didn’t see anything else other than buying fouls. Im not writing him off, nor was he was alone. Apart from Hudson, Hobson, and Raglan, I thought they were all piss poor. They might be really good in the next game, and I’m desperate as the next fan to see us do well. But that shouldn’t stop us calling it for what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: You're quite right about match fitness and sharpness, it begs the question then why we are collecting more players when the ones we've got waiting in the wings are getting zero game time and appear rusty when called upon, is that all part of the plan?. We could probably field second eleven that could compete at this level twiddling their thumbs. I don't remember a single person before January saying we don't need any more signings, we're fine with what we have. Even up front, after Stones went back, in the main people said he needed replacing. Whether the type of player we've gone for (ie need time to get up to speed) is right or not remains to be seen. Maybe we should have gone for match fit hungry players from this league or below instead? But I personally don't think the way he's gone has been proven wrong by these last 2 games, it's too soon to tell. We'll have to see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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