LightDN123 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 9 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: I can't help feeling the history of the club is somewhat being used to slightly unfairly judge the current side. This is a national league side so the last 2 seasons is the lowest level any of us have ever seen, so by historical standards this side may well be seen as "crap" However for over 12 months now our results have been that of a top 7 team, so this is a good (Not great) National League squad. That's how I'm going to judge it. The football won't be great compared to historical standards but we are well oncourse to finish in the top 7, top 3 is unlikely, 4th-7th is. We have what is likely a top 2 budget so finishing in the play offs could be seen as performing slightly below par but not by much. The fact we are going to be in the play offs gives us atleast a punchers chance of going up. Once you are in it 3 knock out blows will be enough to send us upto the football league. We will likely face atleast 1 away game. Just look at our away form we should back ourselves to go away from home and win. The last time we saw a play off team was 06-07. None of the current team would get into that side. But neither would any of Chesterfields team either and they are going to win this league by atleast 20 points. Their is room for improvement but I don't think we will have to ne much better than we are now to go up. I understand what you are saying. But at the same time, I don’t think we should accept not being able to control a game of football for two season. We are not the underdog, we should go out and be on the front foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Aren't we just getting the same results we were this time last year? 23 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Well there is no fair comparison as you never playing under the exact same circumstances... Perfection. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 16 hours ago, LightDN123 said: I understand what you are saying. But at the same time, I don’t think we should accept not being able to control a game of football for two season. We are not the underdog, we should go out and be on the front foot. Which is why I think we are a good National League side rather than a great one. The side that was built during David Unsworths time was big and physical, it wasn't one that had alot of flamboyance but it could be good enough to get results as they kept their shape when wothout the ball relatively well. Micky Mellon has made us abit better with the ball but he can only do so much its not a possession based side and interms of philosophy I think he's more a pragmatist than an artist. Its not a team that cuts teams up at will. That's the next step we probably need to go to should we stay down in this league. But if we are to go up this season then Our best chance looking at the squad we have does appear to be of playing in a way where we won't be good on the ball necessarily but may well be capable of out fighting the opposition. Edited February 15 by GlossopLatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, bluehobbit said: It's funny people calling for better football. Reminds me slightly of the Ronnie Moore era. Getting results but not by any means playing "attractive football" For now, I just want wins and I don't care how they come. Last night is a game we normally lose. MM makes sensible changes Hobson shuts down the space they were getting between Sachdev and the centre-backs and Green gives us an outlet. Defensively we are OK, 3 decent centre-backs for this level and a good LWB when we can get him up the pitch. Playing devil's advocate though the football isn't brilliant which seems odd with the money spent. I still feel recruitment is a bit odd. Crying out for RWB we signed someone else's youth team player, sounded promising but he's given us the same as Sutton going forward i.e. virtually nothing and he's easily bullied. Boreham played in his area all first half when they came forward last night. Walker and Dalls have come in both quick something we lack and both seemingly crocks. Unfortunate? Hammond another strange loan. Doesn't seem to give us much we don't already have - although I think he will improve to a decent standard in time. Ward looks like a lot of other players who get injured for lengthy spells at a new club - hasn't played much, couldn't tell you want he's supposed to be and we could have taken him off after 10 mins and not missed him. Garner puts himself about and his experience will help - I doubt you can play him and Norwood up top but i'm glad to see him score hopefully he can add a few more. His layoffs didn't always work but you can tell there was a footballing brain there. Fondop I still don't rate him, couldn't hold the ball much last night but one big chance and he took which is what we need in games like that. Lundstram - nearly always gets the ball with his back to the opposition goal, and can drive forwards but is rarely doing. Plays far too deep and leaves a massive gap between himself and the rest of the midfield (which isn't his sole fault) Conlon did OK but can't help feel he needs help in the centre. He can be our playmaker if he gets support to often the other 2 would either drop backwards or hide. His set pieces were very good tho a nice weapon to have. 2 tough away games now - but they are winnable if we can give ourselves something to defend. What happend to Ronnie Moore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, True Tic said: I wonder the same to be honest Do you know what a medical involves when signing a player, or are you just throwing it out there the same as the other fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norewgian Gunnar Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Last night first half did not work which MM sorted at half time. Hobson and Green did well second half. Our football style for now will not be the same as free flowing style of late 80's and early 90's which we have to accept. But we are now Division 5!! I did not rate Hammond last night and feel Sheron would have done better for the whole game. I like Fondop and he never stops working and really can hassle defenders. Also he seems to have learned not to react and seems more in control by not getting yellow carded. I was unsure about Garner but as others have said he kept harassing defenders and got his goal. I was too far away to see if it was offside or not. Game was an improvement on previous two which would not be difficult. Good to be back in play off position and hope we now put in two good away performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: The last time we saw a play off team was 06-07. None of the current team would get into that side. But neither would any of Chesterfields team either and they are going to win this league by atleast 20 points. I think you'll find James Berry would. Unless he'd been signed by Real Madrid first. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKing521 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I keep banging on about it but I think a major reason as to why they can't play attractive football on the floor is because they just genuinely shit themselves when some oaf in the main stand starts barking at them. You could see it last night with a few of them, and it has been the same throughout maybe the last 4 seasons. It sounds pathetic but they're just not mentally strong enough. Combine that with a hungry, pressing pub side and we just get dominated. There isn't a quick solution to this. We've been beaten and kicked around for so long that the fan mindset in and around the ground will be radically different to nearly every side in the surrounding divisions. The only other one I can think of is Bradford. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 46 minutes ago, GKing521 said: I keep banging on about it but I think a major reason as to why they can't play attractive football on the floor is because they just genuinely shit themselves when some oaf in the main stand starts barking at them. You could see it last night with a few of them, and it has been the same throughout maybe the last 4 seasons. It sounds pathetic but they're just not mentally strong enough. Combine that with a hungry, pressing pub side and we just get dominated. There isn't a quick solution to this. We've been beaten and kicked around for so long that the fan mindset in and around the ground will be radically different to nearly every side in the surrounding divisions. The only other one I can think of is Bradford. We also keep appointing managers who don't want to play attractive football on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 minutes ago, deyres42 said: We also keep appointing managers who don't want to play attractive football on the floor. I fail to understand why any manager wouldn’t want to play attractive football on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, GKing521 said: I keep banging on about it but I think a major reason as to why they can't play attractive football on the floor is because they just genuinely shit themselves when some oaf in the main stand starts barking at them. You could see it last night with a few of them, and it has been the same throughout maybe the last 4 seasons. It sounds pathetic but they're just not mentally strong enough. Combine that with a hungry, pressing pub side and we just get dominated. There isn't a quick solution to this. We've been beaten and kicked around for so long that the fan mindset in and around the ground will be radically different to nearly every side in the surrounding divisions. The only other one I can think of is Bradford. I’m a little torn on this, just listened to Big Mike’ interview and he talks passionately about the crowd singing his name and even individual shouts of encouragement that really spur him on. Every game I go to our fans always start with passionate support and surely that should, according to Mike’ logic, inspire them to start the game on the front foot etc but in practice we roar the team onto the pitch, at kick off and the start of the game and then……..the players mostly start the game as though they have zero desire. I honestly don’t get it and I don’t remember it being like this in years gone by. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 You can't blame the supporters for that home form, we probably have the loudest and most passionate fans in this League home and away and if I were a player I'd be all over that. Fans will get frustrated because we have players who just aren't brave enough, each week there's half a dozen who don't leave it all out there and that's unforgivable from a fans perspective, it's cup final week every home game but some of our players still think they can cruise through the game and that's why many of them are limited, it's the mentality of the group at the minute that's stopping us from becoming the team we all want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchierich Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: You can't blame the supporters for that home form, we probably have the loudest and most passionate fans in this League home and away and if I were a player I'd be all over that. Fans will get frustrated because we have players who just aren't brave enough, each week there's half a dozen who don't leave it all out there and that's unforgivable from a fans perspective, it's cup final week every home game but some of our players still think they can cruise through the game and that's why many of them are limited, it's the mentality of the group at the minute that's stopping us from becoming the team we all want. on reflection, I’m not torn, this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 20 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: You can't blame the supporters for that home form, we probably have the loudest and most passionate fans in this League home and away and if I were a player I'd be all over that. Fans will get frustrated because we have players who just aren't brave enough, each week there's half a dozen who don't leave it all out there and that's unforgivable from a fans perspective, it's cup final week every home game but some of our players still think they can cruise through the game and that's why many of them are limited, it's the mentality of the group at the minute that's stopping us from becoming the team we all want. Totally agree. We also still don’t have the players. Lundstram is too safe Sheron is extremely limited Ward is crap Hammond doesn’t look good enough for me but granted it’s early days. Gardner is finished We only have Conlon and he can’t do it all. Weve made plenty of signings starting with the Unsworth reign but all of Unsys are largely duds with the jury out on Lundstram and at least Mellon has identified we need footballers in the middle with Conlon. We’re still a few short. We will never control games when we have to select two from Sheron, Ward and Lundstram. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 hours ago, deyres42 said: What's the league table got to do with anything? We are comparing results from this time last year... A classic. I can’t imagine. Maybe we should just all play friendlies with each other Never was the advice “when in a hole, stop digging” more appropriate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: A classic. I can’t imagine. Maybe we should just all play friendlies with each other Never was the advice “when in a hole, stop digging” more appropriate. Hi pal. A league table had no relevance to the point I was making. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Branston Pickle Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, deyres42 said: Hi pal. A league table had no relevance to the point I was making. Hope that helps. Not really, Bounce. Your points rarely have much relevance to be honest. Not sure they are “points” at all to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Think the fan thing is a bit chicken and egg. The fans need the players to give them something to cheer. The players gain confidence when they feed off cheering fans and are negatively affected when fans groan at every misplaced pass. I think it’s probably worse because of how we’ve had fuck all to cheer for decades. I don’t blame the fans but I do think it probably has an effect. Attractive passing football requires confidence and an element of fearlessness. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why Mellon wants to do away with that and stick to pragmatic football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Not really, Bounce. Your points rarely have much relevance to be honest. Not sure they are “points” at all to be honest. Thanks for your input as ever pal, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 35 minutes ago, sjk2008 said: Totally agree. We also still don’t have the players. Lundstram is too safe Sheron is extremely limited Ward is crap Hammond doesn’t look good enough for me but granted it’s early days. Gardner is finished We only have Conlon and he can’t do it all. Weve made plenty of signings starting with the Unsworth reign but all of Unsys are largely duds with the jury out on Lundstram and at least Mellon has identified we need footballers in the middle with Conlon. We’re still a few short. We will never control games when we have to select two from Sheron, Ward and Lundstram. Totally agree, until the midfield is sorted we will struggle. It's a shame because those we have got do have the potential and all have their strengths, it's just that their weaknesses kill us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSizeFitz Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 hours ago, nzlatic said: What are we comparing exactly? Jan 1 to Feb 14 2024 and 2023? Because this year we have 10 points from 5 games and last year we had 11 points from 7 games. Isn't it obvious? He's saying that if we exclude the 4 wins in 17 period last season after Unsworth took charge, and we exclude the period this season where he only won 1 game in 9, and we only include the period where he got results, and we include all of Mellon's games, then he basically did as well as Mellon. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 24 minutes ago, OneSizeFitz said: Isn't it obvious? He's saying that if we exclude the 4 wins in 17 period last season after Unsworth took charge, and we exclude the period this season where he only won 1 game in 9, and we only include the period where he got results, and we include all of Mellon's games, then he basically did as well as Mellon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 So many bites 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, OneSizeFitz said: Isn't it obvious? He's saying that if we exclude the 4 wins in 17 period last season after Unsworth took charge, and we exclude the period this season where he only won 1 game in 9, and we only include the period where he got results, and we include all of Mellon's games, then he basically did as well as Mellon. Hi pal. The point was regarding results from the same sort of time last year. It turns out they were broadly similar to now Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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