Lee Sinnott Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 That's more like it, he used pub team tactics according to Ashworth, I think he meant going for goals. In that case, I'd be happy with Ashworth. He's spot on: Barry Fry's tactics have always been fitting for a pub side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just an alternative view on the three reported candidates (mainly referring to Ashworth).... Is it not possible that Corney has seen sense and is going for an approach that is more FC Midtjylland and Brentford (of next season) where decisions are going to be made through the use of statistical analysis and having several people involved in the decision making process (re. signings, tactics, post-match press conferences etc.)? Because if that's the case, Ashworth may well have the most experience in man-management (which would be his main role) and therefore would actually stand out as the ideal candidate. I know there'll be a lot of you who disagree with this approach because "that's not how football works" but, in truth, it should be. To paraphrase Billy Beane: In what other organization other than sport do you leave the fate of the company entirely up to a middle manager? Statistics can be used and abused. A player sitting in midfield constantly giving the ball to his nearest team mate will get very high stats for completed passes. A midfield player who tries through balls may only get a low completed pass rate. The stats tell us to take the safe option who creates nothing, but doesn't give the ball away, whether or not his character fits in with the other members of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 In that case, I'd be happy with Ashworth. He's spot on: Barry Fry's tactics have always been fitting for a pub side... You can have your tactical manager, if the last few seasons home results have pleased you expect more of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm a bit baffled around what people genuinely expect. Whoever gets the job won't be on big bucks. Won't have numerous managerial promotions on their CV. Won't make you think "wow". But he will be the Latics manager and, as we did with Dickov and Johnson, should be given a fair chance to prove himself by fans. Season ticket? I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You can have your tactical manager, if the last few seasons home results have pleased you expect more of the same. Really not concerned about tactics it's results that get you promotion. We weren't the most attacking flamboyant side under Iain Dowie he did grind us out results I think we all enjoyed that season I'm prepared to give the other 2 a chance as Holdens results read 3 wins from 12. Right now he's not ready to be a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredballboy Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Statistics can be used and abused. A player sitting in midfield constantly giving the ball to his nearest team mate will get very high stats for completed passes. A midfield player who tries through balls may only get a low completed pass rate. The stats tell us to take the safe option who creates nothing, but doesn't give the ball away, whether or not his character fits in with the other members of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lb0603 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 al_bro. I agree with you, if you're using statistics incorrectly. You wouldn't have a blanket analysis to fit every player. Using you're example of holding midfielders vs. creative midfielders the dominant KPIs that would be built into the analysis would change depending on what you're expecting from them tactically. For example, for your holding midfielder you'd be maybe looking at interceptions made and general position play (because performance analysts do get this information) whereas with your creative midfielder you'd be looking at chances created and where he has possession, possibly. To determine whether they're successful or not wouldn't be down to subjective opinion; their performance would be analysed against relevant KPIs that should be obtained from a large pool of data that is readily available. If statistics are used correctly from a large enough pool, the numbers just don't lie. The data is available and it should be utilised (correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simoncorneyisgod Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm willing to back any manager to begin with and give them the same opportunity offered to Judas, Dickov, et al....... What disappoints me is that we 'could' go into next season with the core of a good strong squad, new stand and a bit of positivity about the place with a strong appointment. This is Oldham though and the likelihood is that we will start the season with 2 of our better players at Barnsley, Corney moaning about the lack of support from the people of oldham when the stand doesn't make an Impact and a team once again filled full of 1 year contract chancers. If we can't afford a Rosler or interest a Warburton enough to get involved then I hope they say so. For those who are trying to dampen down expectations.....why should we.....after all in the clubs own words this is the strongest list of applicants they have ever received! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm willing to back any manager to begin with and give them the same opportunity offered to Judas, Dickov, et al....... What disappoints me is that we 'could' go into next season with the core of a good strong squad, new stand and a bit of positivity about the place with a strong appointment. This is Oldham though and the likelihood is that we will start the season with 2 of our better players at Barnsley, Corney moaning about the lack of support from the people of oldham when the stand doesn't make an Impact and a team once again filled full of 1 year contract chancers. If we can't afford a Rosler or interest a Warburton enough to get involved then I hope they say so. For those who are trying to dampen down expectations.....why should we.....after all in the clubs own words this is the strongest list of applicants they have ever received! If those are the shortlisted top three it doesn't seem a strong list to me. Cheapest tender springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just an alternative view on the three reported candidates (mainly referring to Ashworth).... Is it not possible that Corney has seen sense and is going for an approach that is more FC Midtjylland and Brentford (of next season) where decisions are going to be made through the use of statistical analysis and having several people involved in the decision making process (re. signings, tactics, post-match press conferences etc.)? Because if that's the case, Ashworth may well have the most experience in man-management (which would be his main role) and therefore would actually stand out as the ideal candidate. I know there'll be a lot of you who disagree with this approach because "that's not how football works" but, in truth, it should be. To paraphrase Billy Beane: In what other organization other than sport do you leave the fate of the company entirely up to a middle manager? Seeing sense? Brentford? They're sacking a man who's taken them from league one to challenging for the playoffs in the Championship the following season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Surely we have to be going for someone along the lines of Rosler or Dowie? This saga of a stand seems to be the be all and end all for the last few years. Now it's pretty much here, surely we need to start investing on the football side of things a bit more? Or will the argument be "the stand will take a few years to start being profitable"? If that's the case I think many of the remaining few fans might get sick of waiting around. While we can't offer the best wages in the division, we should be able to sell the club to the likes of Dowie and Rosler as one that's moving forward and, at the very least, one that's a decent platform back into management.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Seeing sense? Brentford? They're sacking a man who's taken them from league one to challenging for the playoffs in the Championship the following season! Indeed can anyone ever remember anything remotely similar? Telling any manager, never mind a successful one, that he's leaving three months before the end of the season and leaving him in the job is way past bonkers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ33 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm a bit baffled around what people genuinely expect. Whoever gets the job won't be on big bucks. Won't have numerous managerial promotions on their CV. Won't make you think "wow". But he will be the Latics manager and, as we did with Dickov and Johnson, should be given a fair chance to prove himself by fans. Season ticket? I'm in. i agree with this completely. As soon as the bookies published their odds everyone knew there was no way we were getting anyone on the list, but as time has gone on people seem to have convinced themselves that we were going for a name. This was never going to happen and now people are considering not getting a season ticket because we will have a no name manager, exactly what we had last time and the time before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 My take on all of this, is, if anyone is not renewing or buying a season ticket as they intended to, because of a underwhelming managerial appointment, then perhaps they were having doubts anyway. As someone on here has already posted, Paul Cook isn't doing too bad a job at Chesterfield and there would have been some on their forums having the same thoughts. I could fully appreciate people not renewing/buying if we were about to appoint a convicted rapist as manager, but surely we should give the new man/woman a fair crack of the whip. Sometimes success comes when you are expecting it the least, as O4U said, I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityGrave Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Season ticket renewal regardless . Iam underwhelmed though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_lover Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You should seriously consider a username change mate. Oafc_loverdependingonifIlikethechoiceofmanager So I don't love my club if I don't get a season ticket? Maybe I should change my username then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 My take on all of this, is, if anyone is not renewing or buying a season ticket as they intended to, because of a underwhelming managerial appointment, then perhaps they were having doubts anyway. As someone on here has already posted, Paul Cook isn't doing too bad a job at Chesterfield and there would have been some on their forums having the same thoughts. I could fully appreciate people not renewing/buying if we were about to appoint a convicted rapist as manager, but surely we should give the new man/woman a fair crack of the whip. Sometimes success comes when you are expecting it the least, as O4U said, I'm in. But more often than not, it doesn't. These hope-for-the-best appointments are pretty risky. Could the club survive another Penney-type season? With the new stand and the squad we have under contract, we're surely in the best position we've been in for years? I think we should be pushing the boat out a bit to appoint someone with a semi-proven record at this level to ensure this opportunity isn't missed. I could understand why some fans might be put off buying a season-ticket if this appointment appears to be the cheap option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 If you use Rosler as an example. Failed to get Brentford promoted and then sacked after a short period by a club who will be relegated to our league. Why can't we get him!? Offer a decent wage, a strong squad which he can add to as we always do. Put an incentive based contract in place as he has something to prove as well. I wonder how many champ clubs would go for him, not many if any my bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Out of three, Holden is the one I wouldn't want. However I'd like him to stay on as coach. He's done enough to show that he will be a decent manager in the future, but not enough to prove that he's ready for what could be a challenging season next year. I think he'll be out of a job within a year if he gets it. Between Yates and Ashworth, the former would be the safer choice. I'm surprised to hear that Ashworth has apparently said in the past that he doesn't have the contacts. Without those nor prior football league experience, he must have some USP that is really impressive to have got this far. From what I remember Yates made some decent signings at Cheltenham for their level, including young players like Butland and Garbutt as well as a mix of experienced players in the right areas. But I can't shake the feeling that he'll turn out to be another Talbot or Penney. I'll support whoever's in charge, but it's hard to get excited about any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 If you use Rosler as an example. Failed to get Brentford promoted and then sacked after a short period by a club who will be relegated to our league. Why can't we get him!? Offer a decent wage, a strong squad which he can add to as we always do. Put an incentive based contract in place as he has something to prove as well. I wonder how many champ clubs would go for him, not many if any my bet. Holloway, Dowie, even Billy Davies just to add a few more. Surely they wouldn't all say "no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Think i've said it before in this thread but Yates is the type of manager an Oxford or Dag & Redbridge appoint. A Nobody and a disaster in the making. The other two don't bare thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Déjà vu - a new manager called Ashworth looking on from a new North Stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Paul Ashworth: http://www.britishcoachesabroad.com/new-paul-ashworth-interview/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 That shortlist is a bit grim. I'd take Dave Jones above them three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Holloway, Dowie, even Billy Davies just to add a few more. Surely they wouldn't all say "no". All 3 of those would say no. Dowie has been out of management for 5 years in that time every job in Englamd bar Arsene Wengers has been up for someone to fight for he's not got one. How much does that say about his hunger to get back in the game? Holloway and Davies will see themselves as championship managers they will happily sit it out and wait for a position to come up at that level. The average manager lasts 12 months. Rosler would be possible for 2 main reasons. 1. He would be willing to manage at this level. He's watching football at this level which suggests he's analysing and gathering info at this level. 2. He's settled in the north west of England However he would require to work with a top 6 budget and probably a top 6 salary something we will be just short off unless we get further investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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