Wages surely not again ?

[BP1960]

14 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

No.... because Bosman and the mammoth TV rights of the Premier League & subsequent hoarding of scores & scores of young footballers that would've once been forced to look for employment in the lower leagues, make it impossible without an injection of capital, way beyond those who funded the club in the 80's.

 

I don't expect such a benefactor today..... but one who has a workable Plan that could make us competitive in the 3rd tier shouldn't be a pipe dream...... paying wages ontime should be a hygiene factor that isn't even a consideration, let alone a common occurrence.

 

These scores of hoarded young players find themselves in the Championship and below just the same nowadays.

[Dave_Og]

2 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

These scores of hoarded young players find themselves in the Championship and below just the same nowadays.

No they don't. The championship is stuffed full of quick fix imports

[boundaryblue80]

2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

Fact check there. He bought in during 2011. They were promoted to the championship in 2013. 

 

Ok, I'll submit that I thought he bought them after promotion but evidently not...however another fact check is they were in Administration in League One in 2008/9 and were looking like going out of business. They turned the club around and into a prospect for someone like this guy to take over. So my original point still stands...

 

"When both clubs were on their arse in League One, there was no Russian billionaire and Brentford had no fan with millions funding them. It is only since they went through their dark times and came out better for it that monies were then pumped in by said people."

Edited October 12, 2018 by boundaryblue80

[BP1960]

1 minute ago, Dave_Og said:

No they don't. The championship is stuffed full of quick fix imports

 

The clubs can't hoard those deemed not good enough, so where do they go then?

[Dave_Og]

8 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I thought JW Lees had some input, plus Ian Stott and a few local businessmen?

Depends what you mean by funded. Doubtless they put a few quid in but the more important funding in the run up to the good times came from the sales of players such as Linighan, Horam, Wright etc at prices that we struggle to achieve for our players three decades down the line. Bosman and the very limited demand from the top flight for lower league players has greatly limited that route. 

[Dave_Og]

1 minute ago, BP1960 said:

 

The clubs can't hoard those deemed not good enough, so where do they go then?

Building sites, Amazon delivery drivers, McDonald's.... 

[Dave_Og]

3 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

 

Ok, I'll submit that I thought he bought them after promotion but evidently not...however another fact check is they were in Administration in League One in 2008/9 and were looking like going out of business. They turned the club around and into a prospect for someone like this guy to take over. So my original point still stands...

 

"When both clubs were on their arse in League One, there was no Russian billionaire and Brentford had no fan with millions funding them. It is only since they went through their dark times and came out better for it that monies were then pumped in by said people."

As does mine. He bought a club with a catchment area and virtually no local competition. He also flouted FFP, as did Leicester, and the gamble paid off. 

[dannyboy55555]

3 hours ago, singe said:

I've cancelled my Direct Debit for trust membership (it was only £1 per month , but had been going since 2006 IIRC) because I am very frustrated and the seat on the Board has had no tangible benefit.

But, if a Groundshare is created, to create a fund to own the ground, and/or take over running if Lemsagem disappears then I will re-start and actually put more per month in than I did. It is something I have posted a number of times on here about.

Id also do this.

[Londonboy]

5 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Tracey, I put £20 per month into Playerhare. If you opened Shareshare, where the objective was to build a warchest for big red button moments and/or to buy Shares with, I’d divert it - and throw in more when I could - into there!?!

Great point. I would do the same. 

[maddog]

Could the player share pot as it stands be added to the central Warchest? And ringfenced for warchest purposes only (i.e., not spunked away on buying the youth team a minibus, as happened with previous trust funds). 

[singe]

6 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Tracey, I put £20 per month into Playerhare. If you opened Shareshare, where the objective was to build a warchest for big red button moments and/or to buy Shares with, I’d divert it - and throw in more when I could - into there!?!

You inspired me to post Andy, and I  support what you say. The only thing I  do not agree with is ShareShare and buying shares. Having the shares and the seat on the Board has not bought any tangible benefit, or any Early Warning System. But 100% yes on a war chest and/or to purchase the ground at least.

[boundaryblue80]

1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

As does mine. He bought a club with a catchment area and virtually no local competition. He also flouted FFP, as did Leicester, and the gamble paid off. 

3 seasons following Administration. Stayed up despite 17pt deduction in League Two. Promoted. Playoffs in League One. All before the Russian. Mostly using their kids.

2008–2009	League Two	21st	*17 points deducted
2009–2010	League Two	2nd	Promoted
2010–2011	League One	6	Defeated in play-off semi-finals

 

We are singing the same thing here...that it will take someone with serious cash to bring about a level of success up the leagues. But the notion it took a Russian to go from our position of hand to mouth to where they are now is only half true. They were righting themselves well before a Russian arrived in November 2011. That playoff season was remarkable with the kids they had that season. Their crowds were around the 5,000 mark. They hit the very bottom and transformed themselves without the initial money. It is possible if done right. Abdallah isn't showing us he is capable of that in these early days though. Hopefully, someone can see there is potential in a lower league club who are now (if Underdog is correct) virtually debt-free.

Edited October 12, 2018 by boundaryblue80

[Dave_Og]

12 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

3 seasons following Administration. Stayed up despite 17pt deduction in League Two. Promoted. Playoffs in League One. All before the Russian. Mostly using their kids.

2008–2009	League Two	21st	*17 points deducted
2009–2010	League Two	2nd	Promoted
2010–2011	League One	6	Defeated in play-off semi-finals

 

We are singing the same thing here...that it will take someone with serious cash to bring about a level of success up the leagues. But the notion it took a Russian to go from our position of hand to mouth to where they are now is only half true. They were righting themselves well before a Russian arrived in November 2011. That playoff season was remarkable with the kids they had that season. Their crowds were around the 5,000 mark. They hit the very bottom and transformed themselves without the initial money. It is possible if done right. Abdallah isn't showing us he is capable of that in these early days though. Hopefully, someone can see there is potential in a lower league club who are now (if Underdog is correct) virtually debt-free.

Maybe our moment was at our lowest point, 14 years ago........ 

[League one forever]

3 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Maybe our moment was at our lowest point, 14 years ago........ 

What do you mean? 

 

We’ve gone backwards since our darkest hour? 

[Dave_Og]

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

What do you mean? 

 

We’ve gone backwards since our darkest hour? 

We were very close to the end. I don't think we are as close to that now, but who knows. 

[League one forever]

20 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said:

3 seasons following Administration. Stayed up despite 17pt deduction in League Two. Promoted. Playoffs in League One. All before the Russian. Mostly using their kids.

2008–2009	League Two	21st	*17 points deducted
2009–2010	League Two	2nd	Promoted
2010–2011	League One	6	Defeated in play-off semi-finals

 

We are singing the same thing here...that it will take someone with serious cash to bring about a level of success up the leagues. But the notion it took a Russian to go from our position of hand to mouth to where they are now is only half true. They were righting themselves well before a Russian arrived in November 2011. That playoff season was remarkable with the kids they had that season. Their crowds were around the 5,000 mark. They hit the very bottom and transformed themselves without the initial money. It is possible if done right. Abdallah isn't showing us he is capable of that in these early days though. Hopefully, someone can see there is potential in a lower league club who are now (if Underdog is correct) virtually debt-free.

Didn’t that Jeff Mostyn pump a load in at the last minute to save them extinction? While he wasn’t a billionaire, he was paying the bills to take them upto the championship. I don’t think it was mega money, but equally they weren’t struggling to pay wages neither. You don’t have that level of success without some level of investment. We have had zero investment, and have no proof we are debt free- (and seeing as though abdallah told us our problems we’re behind us, to then struggle with the basics of paying wages)  I’m very dubious we are. 

 

 

It’s a very grim time, and I would be straggered if we seriously challenged this year. 

[boundaryblue80]

Just now, League one forever said:

Didn’t that Jeff Mostyn pump a load in at the last minute to save them extinction? While he wasn’t a billionaire, he was paying the bills to take them upto the championship. I don’t think it was mega money, but equally they weren’t struggling to pay wages neither. You don’t have that level of success without some level of investment. We have had zero investment, and have no proof we are debt free- (and seeing as though abdallah told us our problems we’re behind us, to then struggle with the basics of paying wages)  I’m very dubious we are. 

 

 

It’s a very grim time, and I would be straggered if we seriously challenged this year. 

 

That's the problem, we have had investment just that under AL it has gone straight into the black hole Corney spent 10yrs digging. You're right though...we are all still waiting for AL's masterplan. And the wait feels like it could a long time. Which we don't have. I'd like to think he's got some waiting in the wings or is looking for some. If we could stay in the hunt for playoffs by January then he's got the opportunity to promote us as "throw a little bit at us and we've every chance of going up" to any possible interest.

[lookersstandandy]

2 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

These scores of hoarded young players find themselves in the Championship and below just the same nowadays.

 

Eventually, maybe.... but not after having spent an extended period of time being molly coddled on obscene wages in some ineffective academy playing against other boys. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by lookersstandandy

[singe]

2 hours ago, boundaryblue80 said:

 

Ok, I'll submit that I thought he bought them after promotion but evidently not...however another fact check is they were in Administration in League One in 2008/9 and were looking like going out of business. They turned the club around and into a prospect for someone like this guy to take over. So my original point still stands...

 

"When both clubs were on their arse in League One, there was no Russian billionaire and Brentford had no fan with millions funding them. It is only since they went through their dark times and came out better for it all the debt written off leaving a trail of creditors includiong local businesses  that monies were then pumped in by said people."

FIFY.

I do agree with the thrust of your point. The trouble for us is that we wrote off a load of debt, but added even more than before afterwards.

[OAFCinWolves]

4 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Who funded Latics in the late 1980s, leading the club to the Premiership, and could such a local business investment model work again?

 

They also drained it as well after relegation...they were the cause of the decline

Edited October 12, 2018 by OAFCinWolves
.

[ghostofcecere]

1 hour ago, OAFCinWolves said:

They also drained it as well after relegation...they were the cause of the decline

If Corporal Jones was still around on here (and I suspect he still is with a different username) he would tell you, and he’s right, that it was failure to invest by the owners at the time when we were in the Premier League that has lead to the point we find ourselves today. Lees brewery were the focus of the “stop the rot” campaign of the mid to late 90’s, they wouldn’t invest, and they wouldn’t sell.

[underdog]

3 hours ago, boundaryblue80 said:

3 seasons following Administration. Stayed up despite 17pt deduction in League Two. Promoted. Playoffs in League One. All before the Russian. Mostly using their kids.

2008–2009	League Two	21st	*17 points deducted
2009–2010	League Two	2nd	Promoted
2010–2011	League One	6	Defeated in play-off semi-finals

 

We are singing the same thing here...that it will take someone with serious cash to bring about a level of success up the leagues. But the notion it took a Russian to go from our position of hand to mouth to where they are now is only half true. They were righting themselves well before a Russian arrived in November 2011. That playoff season was remarkable with the kids they had that season. Their crowds were around the 5,000 mark. They hit the very bottom and transformed themselves without the initial money. It is possible if done right. Abdallah isn't showing us he is capable of that in these early days though. Hopefully, someone can see there is potential in a lower league club who are now (if Underdog is correct) virtually debt-free.

I'll be honest and say not necessarily debt free..but more that Al has been advised too /is more likely to follow protocol/legal obligations of those that should be paid first...taxman, PAYE etc than a whim of a previous owner who decided who was paid and when.its these small steps that are building bridges we firmly burned or had us on the radar for an age.

 

I remember a story of a board director resigning because Corney wanted to pay a friend first before the taxman. Alledgedly of course

[rudemedic]

16 minutes ago, ghostofcecere said:

If Corporal Jones was still around on here (and I suspect he still is with a different username) he would tell you, and he’s right, that it was failure to invest by the owners at the time when we were in the Premier League that has lead to the point we find ourselves today. Lees brewery were the focus of the “stop the rot” campaign of the mid to late 90’s, they wouldn’t invest, and they wouldn’t sell.

Wouldn't have had to invest much either as we made a profit for the final year we were in the Prem, before any player sales after relegation. 

[JoeP]

11 hours ago, ghostofcecere said:

If Corporal Jones was still around on here (and I suspect he still is with a different username) he would tell you, and he’s right, that it was failure to invest by the owners at the time when we were in the Premier League that has lead to the point we find ourselves today. Lees brewery were the focus of the “stop the rot” campaign of the mid to late 90’s, they wouldn’t invest, and they wouldn’t sell.

 

If I remember rightly, I don't think we signed anyone of note (possibly anyone at all..) the summer after the great escape... it was only really going to end one way (although I blame Graeme Sharp for starting the decline more than anyone because of the sitter he missed at Wembley in the semi..).

[GlossopLatic]

 

12 hours ago, ghostofcecere said:

If Corporal Jones was still around on here (and I suspect he still is with a different username) he would tell you, and he’s right, that it was failure to invest by the owners at the time when we were in the Premier League that has lead to the point we find ourselves today. Lees brewery were the focus of the “stop the rot” campaign of the mid to late 90’s, they wouldn’t invest, and they wouldn’t sell.

 

We were always going to go down at some point from the premier league although it doesnt mean we had to have the existance we have had since. 

 

The mistake Lees made both for us and themselves is not selling the club much earlier than they did. Football was changing and we were standing still.

 

Since then we have had a succession of owners (I include the current one in this) who have provided us with nothing but false dawns, missed opportunities and poorly executed plans.